How to approach school about setting of dd for English?

[mids2019]

For context my daughter has always been academically capable and has very good SATs results from primary level (greater depth) and at secondary school is currently projected to be gaining GCSE results in the 7-9 range for the majority of her subjects including maths where she is 8th in her year group and expected to gain a 9.

We have been informed through a very brief conversation with her school that she is going to be in mixed ability class for English (not top set where she has been for years 7-9). The reasons given for this resetting were opaque and were presented as a fait accompli to us without discussion.

Since year 7 my dd has had a reference goal grade of 8 based on SATs and initial testing. We have not been notified of any concerns about her ability in English prior to the 3-4 minute conversation with an English teacher so we are really quite upset by this decision.

We were told that there was no reason she couldn't get a 7 by the teacher who possibly was just wanting to placate us but it makes no sense to have her in a lower mixed ability sets of they there is no change in opinion on her being able to achieve a 7 (or 8) has changed.

My daughter who is taking further maths at the suggestion of her maths teacher is now wanting to drop it to concentrate on English as her career ambition has always been to be a lawyer (at Oxford though that prospect is obviously now remote). She feels quite humiliated not being in class with her friends and is one of 6 girls in a class of 30 and has been subject to misogynist comments when attempting to answer questions.

I have sent a n email to the school to discuss this including whether they advise tutoring or focus on revision guides and they have not replied. We are wishing at least to talk to her English teachers but I am starting to fear they just wish to avoid the subject.

The question is how should you escalate this respectfully and what arguments would teachers be receptive to in terms of ensuring support of my daughter. I was thinking about approaching head of department then head master?

Having read back through your posts it seems your dd was set not based on end of year exams. I’m guessing the school don’t do these ?

So it seems it’s the class work and teachers knowledge that has determined the setting of all the children. This makes it difficult as you have no knowledge of how other kids are doing each year.
I would guess they have based the setting on numbers and once the top sets are full they work down.

This doesn’t mean your dd isn’t capable just that the top sets are full as the teacher did say ‘there’s no reason she can’t get a 7’ ( which in my experience is teacher speak for she’s working at a 6 so if she works hard )

Im assuming she’s first year GCSE so hasn’t done any early mocks

You don't mention her actual attainment in English, simply her projected targets based on SATS etc (which may be way out in terms of likely results at GCSE). The comment about "No reason she couldn't get a 7" suggests she is not working at top levels.

How did she do in exams and assessments last year? What's the profile of the school (i.e. is there a lot of high achievers)?

(As an aside, my DD got 9 after being taught in a mixed ability class for English - in a school with lower than average GCSE results. She's now studying English at a top university. English is very much a subject where you need to be pretty self motivated to do well).

Good point.

In reality does anyone know someone who has done well in maths,science and humanities but not in English? I know we all want to think the best of our children and promote them but in this instance I find it a little hard to see why there is a gap between English and other subjects.

basically I don't think she will do A level English but a 7 would really help generally if she can make it.

this is interesting as I can say she can be less than motivated at times. However we are working hard to keep motivation up and we have had honest conversations about this. Ultimately I think she has ability but needs to work hard. I think she would be motivated by being in a top set so she wouldn't be tempted to coast.

I found your post really positive.

Yep
One DS doing Neuroscience at RG uni. 6 in English

Another DS Masters in Bioscience at RG uni. 6 in English ( might have been a B actually as they did igcses )

Another DS 9s and A stars all the way with English, arts subjects and humanities but was truly terrible at maths and sciences

this is interesting as I can say she can be less than motivated at times.

This may unfortunately be the reason then. If the top set is full and they have needed to choose between some students of the same ability level, they are likely to have chosen the most motivated ones. You can ask of course, but at the end of the day, it's the school's/English department's decision.

Sounds like you need to find her an English tutor. It might just be that there are 60 kids who are doing better than her. My daughter got 7s at GCSE English (for both) but then an A* at A level and is studying English lit at a RG uni.

My son got 9s in science and maths but only just scraped a 4 in English and that was with a lot of tutoring,

went on to maths, further maths, chem and bio a levels.

it’s actually a very common situation.

Surely the first thing you need to do is make an appointment to see her teacher?

Hell yes.

9s in marhs and sciences, 8s in humantites, 6s in English and MFL this summer.
And those 6s took much more blood sweat and tears than the 9s.

Tricky. My son was moved out of top set maths in year 11 and I think it ultimately cost him a grade as higher material not covered and was with children who were aiming for a 5 when teacher had felt he capable of a high grade. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think you need to push them for a reason, presumably they feel she has relatively dropped? English would be less of a problem than maths or science if she has natural ability. If they won’t budge make the best of it. Good luck.

When did you email the school?

Teachers really don’t think like this. As a secondary teacher, I was teaching over 200 pupils across the year groups. I wouldn’t have a clue who might be able to get a private tutor or not.

Hi OP, I'm an English teacher and private tutor - unless I've missed it, are you referring to Lit or Language? There seems to be a lot of predicted grades talk - has she sat papers for both Lit and Language under exam conditions? If not, I'd suggest you hire a tutor and in the first instance, do this, as it will indicate exactly what level she is working at, and you can plan from there...

Setting is a tough one.

It has to be fair. You can’t set someone who is performing worse in a higher set, as other pupils and parents will justifiably complain.

The best thing is to have a meeting with the teacher, find out why she is in that set, when there is next an opportunity for her to move up, and what she needs to do to justify that move.

I would definitely get her a tutor if it is an option, but she also needs to do her bit by working hard for a term or so.

I wouldn’t go in all guns blazing because it isn’t a good life lesson for your daughter and it may just get the school to dig in, anyway. Most schools reassess ahead of Christmas and maybe she can move up next term based on that.

Meeting the teacher won’t help, unless she was taught by the same teacher last year, in which case they should be able to remember if there was a particular weakness. I’d suggest a email asking that first rather than trying to arrange a meeting. This year’s teacher will barely know her name at this point in the year.

The head of department will control setting, or delegate it to their 2nd or similar. They are the person you need to contact if you want to know why the change has happened. And try an email first. I wouldn’t meet you unless I couldn’t deal with your query via email.

I have absolutely no idea of your dd's English ability compared to the top two sets but if her English grades have been good up til now and the school are being evasive then I would be suspicious that she's been put in the mixed class just so it's not all boys.

(I know everyone is saying the school must have a good reason but I was switched to a different class once just because my teachers thought me and my best friend were in a relationship! (I asked a teacher after I had left as we had suspected that was the reason!))

No comment on the setting issue but as a lawyer I would say that doing an English degree is not the best - or even a good - path to being a lawyer. Assuming she doesn’t want to read law (which is not necessary and most of my lawyer friends didn’t); STEM subjects, History, Classics, Philosophy - in that order. I screen the grad applications at my firm and STEM subjects in my view are by far the most useful.

Please don't write your DD off on the grounds of one mixed ability class. DD was in a mixed ability class for history where many went onto achieve grades 2 or 3. She received a lot of attention to stretch her. DD achieved a grade 9 and subsequently graduated with a degree in PPE from Oxford.

thanks for all the posts!!!!