Pulling out of 11+ (poor mock results)?

[fedupofit1234]

Hi. Wondering if anyone in a grammar school area has pulled out of doing the 11+ at the last minute and if you/your child regretted it?

My daughter has done 4 mock exams between May and this week. Scores have improved steadily (from very low on the first attempt) but she is still under what the provider states is probably a pass (she scored 71% this time, a 'pass' is classed as 75% or above and the real thing is generally considered to start somewhere between 76-80% although nobody knows for sure).

Some of her wrong answers are silly mistakes which she can spot straight away, especially in maths where in theory she could absolutely excel. But she also has weaker points that we just can't improve on at this stage - mainly comprehension and vocab. Yes we are practising but she just finds it inherently hard!

Her friends have been scoring 80% plus since the spring and some are now getting ridiculous scores of 95% and more and I just think she is so behind this level, what's the point? Would it be a mistake to pull out at this late stage (real test is mid September)? Has anyone done this and regretted it or ended up with an upset child afterwards? She is bored of the work we are doing (although gets on with it and we are not doing ridiculous amounts) and has often said she doesn't mind if she goes to the grammar or the local secondary school but I don't know if this opinion would stay if I actually let her drop out.

We are in Trafford if that's relevant.

Thanks 🙂

I’d leave it up to her at this stage. It doesn’t sound likely that she will pass, and if she does, will she keep up with the level of work at grammar as she will be very borderline.

We are in Trafford and my DS just about passed a couple of years ago. He only did one mock and scored 70%. However we were told that this was on target, so perhaps it was a tougher mock. In the end he narrowly missed the cut off in the exam but got a place at both Urmston and Stretford via the local review. His strength was maths and comprehension was also his weakness.

He’s absolutely flying at grammar school and has no regrets trying the exam and taking the place despite only scraping through the exam. Academically he is now one of the highest performers there, particularly in maths. Of note, he attended a fairly low performing primary with a lot of disruptive children. I think this may have hindered him more than I realised as he has done so well since leaving that environment.

How is your daughter doing in school tests? My DS was getting greater depth in most subjects and was borderline greater depth in writing. If your daughter has a similar profile, it might still be worth considering taking the exam.

Might also be worth considering whether you are looking only at the Altrincham schools or whether you would consider Urmston and Stretford which require lower marks.

My older DS also did the test despite having no realistic chance of passing. He just wanted the experience of doing it and didn’t want to be left behind in the classroom whilst the other kids had a day off! He was a relaxed kid who wasn’t upset about not passing. He went to one of the local comps. It was ok but he didn’t love it. Our experience with the grammar school has been far superior to the local school.

Personally I’d let her take it as long as you are realistic with her about the chance of passing and you don’t think she’ll be too upset about not passing.

If your child wants to have a go and is happy I would say give it a go. There are some that always score high in mocks then fail and then there are those which pull it out the bag on the day. A really silly system but nothing to lose.

Thanks all, you all make some good points.

@TraffordMum This is the thing - at school she is a really high achiever and sails through everything! She's greater depth across all maths/reading/writing and at the end of Y5 they gave predicted SATS outcomes and she was predicted greater depth (or whatever the phrase was) in all areas here. In lessons she is certainly not behind her friends who are achieving these amazing mock scores.

Ideally we would be looking at Stretford or Sale as those are closest to where we live. I've also come across parents with children who went through the local review for Stretford and are among the higher achievers there - just goes to show how pointless taking a score from one exam is in the long run. I don't doubt that she would cope once there, I think it's just the way of thinking/processing needed to actually pass the 11+ doesn't suit her abilities (which I get is why they do it - they don't just want children who can learn but children who can think in certain ways/cope under pressure etc.)

@Rocketpants50 you are right there is nothing to lose. Kind of feels like we've come this far we may as well go through with it!

Based on what you’ve said, I would go for it. I think you’ll always wonder otherwise. And if she does just miss the mark, I think loads of kids get in at Stretford and Urmston via local review.

Call me cynical but if the mocks are arranged through a tutoring company then round by us (Bucks) the mock marks are low and then they sell you extra intensive tuition.

You have nothing to lose in taking it but definitely be led by her. Keep any extra prep minimal or even have a total break. Taking the pressure off is sometimes all kids need to up their performance.

If she really doesn’t want to take it then don’t. One of my friends sons was adamant he was going to the local school with his mates and not the grammar. Parents made him sit it and he answered “A” for every question to ensure he didn’t pass.

You’ve come so far so I would just let her sit the exam, especially as it sounds like based on her school performance it’s not an unrealistic expectation that she should be able to pass. Treat it lightly and let her know you are proud of her for the work she has done. She may surprise you in the actual exam! Let her have the opportunity.

I think it would send the wrong message to a dc to pull out at this stage - my dd would see this as saying “I think you aren’t good enough, let’s not embarrass ourselves in front of the other mummies by proving it.”

There is nothing to be lost by trying if you’ve done the prep; people can have a lucky day, and a lot of people rise to an occasion when adrenalin kicks in.

Go for it!

Why on Earth would you pull her out at this stage? After all hard work your daughter and you have done, why would you put it to bin? Are you talking Newell mock? Two years ago, 70% was about a borderline for Alty Girls and more than enough for Urmston and Stretford. Moreover, you never know how well will she do on the real thing and how well or badly will everyone else do. Just keep calm and carry one. Two more weeks and then we all can relax.

Agree with this 100 percent! Let her try - you have absolutely nothing to lose by trying and a lot to lose if you don’t (the loss of confidence, the “what ifs,” the feeling that her best wasn’t even good enough to try in your eyes.) Go for it and good luck!

If you're considering Stretford, definitely go ahead. The mark between Sale and Stretford can be a good few marks, so she could be in a position where she passes Stretford. Also Stretford has local review, so you have the option to do a soft appeal straight after the results.

I know several people that have got into the local grammar schools this way, so sit the test and evaluate your options as and when you get to them. All the best.

Those don't sound like poor mock results to me. Sounds like it's within reach and worth a go. You do need a plan B, but that in itself will build resilience if handled in the right way. Good luck!

Thank you so much for all your comments - you've given my head a wobble and it was just what I needed! You're right, we are so close to the final thing now that it would be a shame to throw all of that effort away. Also agree with the poster who said it's not giving a good message to my daughter to pull out at this stage and for these reasons now.

She is happy to carry on and like someone else has said, doesn't want to be one of the handful of children in the classroom on the day instead of sitting the exam (almost everyone at her school seems to at least have a go, which in itself should be encouraging I guess as at least she won't be the only one who doesn't pass if that is the end result).

I think it's hearing about these other children scoring so highly that's knocking both of our confidence. But I guess in reality it's a small minority scoring 96% and over and those with more 'average' scores probably don't go around talking about it so much!

The mocks she's taken are provided by a tuition company (and yes it's Newell) so who knows, maybe they do lower the scores to boost their tuition income (fingers crossed)!

my oldest child did newell mocks - they completely screwed up the marking and marked a load of it wrong when it was right. I checked after looking into lower scores than usual to see what areas he needed to work on. They remarked and his score went up about 15%!

FWIW I would go ahead at this point too. I wouldn’t want to send the message that you don’t think she should sit it in case she fails. With my two I emphasised that the test was just about working out which school is the best for them and the way they learn, it’s not pass or fail.

ive had three go through the 11+. Not in your area (West Mids), but none of them ever did spectacularly well in their mocks. I’d been confident that one should pass (and they scored very well on the day), the other two I thought had a reasonable shot but by no means guaranteed- they both passed (and well enough to get out of catchment places). Scores weren’t anywhere near the top but they were still good enough, and that’s all you need! There will always be child geniuses scoring 100%, but they don’t NEED that to get a place! Sounds like she’s doing really well- let her take the test and just see what happens.

Ps all three at grammar now and doing well. Are they top of the class, no, but they are all holding their own, and have time for sports and other activities too. No need to compare them with natural geniuses or the kids who have huge amount of pressure from home to get top results.

Are you on the 11+ support thread? We are all driving ourselves slightly mad at this point and wish we'd never begun.

My daughter only got 40% on the Newell mock, we've done a lot more study this week and she's resolving some of her issue areas. I've definitely questioned whether she should sit it or not as it's not a hill but a mountain to overcome. I told her as long as she puts in extra study then she can otherwise if she doesn't then I wont bother having her take it. She's adamant she wants to go to a grammar school.
She's Audhd so it's not been easy.

Well good luck to everyone with exams over the next few weeks!

And good luck to the fellow Trafford children for Monday. If nothing else year 6 will be a breeze after putting so much work in over the last few months!

@fedupofit1234 How did your DD find the exam in the end OP? Mine said it wasn’t as hard as expected but there were some NVQ questions not seen before.

@BdayQ She said it was 'ok' but didn't say much more and I didn't want to push it. Heard very mixed thoughts on it overall - some saying it was a walk in the park and others saying it was tough. Guess we just have to wait and see.

I got the same feedback about the new NVR questions and I've just been reading through another 11+ thread somewhere on here that mentions this too so sounds like it caught a few of them out.

Hi all , my daughter just had her 11+test , she said it was fine but not happy with NVR section . I just want to know about other kids how was their experience???

My DS said paper 2 was harder than paper 1, with a three page comprehension in it. heard that the one of the NVR was tricky but he said he thinks he managed to get his round it! Fingers crossed! Some of his friends struggled to finish and had to guess a few. I suppose if most find paper 2 hard … they will take that in account over the two papers.
did your daughter find all the NVR tough or just one section of it?

Yeah I think the long comprehension threw them a bit. It was also one particular NVR section that threw my DD.

The thing that's worrying me now though is that every other child has reported paper 1 was easier than paper 2, but DD said the complete opposite. Makes me think she possibly just totally misread half of it 😕

We only have grammar and secondaries here, there are no comprehensives, so if your child fails, then you face the real possibility of a crap secondary.

I didn't tutor either of mine and with dd (ds is q18 yes older, so can't remeber), they only had a mock at school days before the real thing, and that wasn't marked.

As we are a wholly selective county, almost everyone takes the exam.

I don't know about your area, but here we have a selection review, which takes place before allocations and includes things such as the child being at GDS, etc. Much better than an appeal, as they are after allocations and you run the likelihood of schools being full, plus you can apply to any schol, as if your child passed, whereas with appeals it's for individual schools.