A level choices - are these good?

[pinotnow]

Ds has had some of his choices thrown into question by yesterday's results and now has quite a mixed bag, so I'm interested to see what people think of them. He has to take 4 initially but will almost certainly drop one by Christmas. He was always intending to do maths, FM (maybe), biology, history (maybe) and chemistry, but over the last year it became clear he wasn't as strong on science as he thought and this was confirmed yesterday with 6 in chem. He got 8 in maths, and solid 7s in history and biology, but has gone off history. He also scraped a pass in FM (it's barely taught).

He has put down maths, biology, psychology (will be new to him) and German (got 8). I think it's an interesting mix but I'm a bit worried about the three he might be left with as it might be too much of a spread. German is the one he's least keen on and it's the high grade plus his love for the teacher that have made him put it. I think a language is fab to have, but what does it actually lead to?

Can anyone comment on what would be an ideal three to be left with, or any potential no-nos? He has no clue what he wants to do at uni (definitely wants to go though) or beyond. I'm working on that... He did say last time we looked that economics sounded good, but it's by no means something he definitely wants to do. I think lots of stem courses would still be open to him with two stem A levels, and I know psych is counted as stem sometimes, but is there a benefit to having a language as well or is that confusing things? What if he ended up with maths, psych, German?

Thank you for any advice!

Edit: I know not having chem does rule out a lot of the microbiology/biomedical courses he was vaguely looking at last year but biology is the lowest grade he has for the A levels he's taking so may be the one he will drop, which would definitely rule anything like that out anyway.

It sounds like he’s not too clear on what he wants to do at uni, so is your question what gives the most flexibility for future?

If he does want to pursue biochem then I wouldn’t be too hung up on the gcse grade - a levels are a different game. If he’s staying on at sixth form the teachers will be able to give a sense of his aptitude especially if this one didn’t go as well as mocks, for example.

I’d suggest Maths, one science and then probably either Econ/history (as a social science type) and then German. If he likes the teacher and has an aptitude for German then he might benefit from keeping that as a fourth - especially if there are trips/exchanges?

I am discounting psychology a bit as I think if he wanted to pursue that at degree then he’d be permitted to do so with any other science - but it doesn’t necessarily work the other way around (based on historic anecdotes vs knowledge of university admissions).

My view would be maths and biology. This is ok for environmental sciences for example where chemistry isn’t needed. German is not a vocational A level any more than history is. What does history lead to? These A levels are still listed by Cambridge at the best prep for many of their academic courses. So this is what they lead to! (Not suggesting he’s going to Cambridge but you get the point). They facilitate further study. No one would think it odd if he did maths, biology and German. If he kept going with German he’s going to be able to add that into a degree (universities like linguists) and that’s a useful MFL for scientists and shows he’s versatile. So I would do that as the world and his wife does psychology!

He’s right to sack off further maths. I’m a maths tutor and to be honest I have to psyche myself up before I do a FM tutoring session. I would swap psychology for economics or something like that - but really it’s up to him. Most schools let you swap around a bit in the first few weeks.

Honestly, Maths plus any of the other two would be a good solid lot of subjects. German would (sadly) be the one I’d suggest dropping - simply because unis are closing MFL depts left right and centre, and years abroad are difficult at the moment.

With the big step up in the curriculum and exam requirements for A-Level, he is right to put his strongest subjects first. So Maths and German. I guess the next question is whether he thinks he will go more for humanities or mathematics at degree level. Psychology or history would be good prep for a humanities degree, and biology better for a science or maths degree. It’s really early to decide this though. As a teacher of languages, it is always disappointing for us when pupils give us up in favour of all the STEM subjects. But I can say that smaller class sizes often means the language teacher has a chance to really cater the course to the interests of the pupils, and provide lots of support. German goes with everything!

Why do you dread your FM tutoring sessions? 3 of my dc did FM and the youngest is doing higher level maths at IB. The oldest 3 got A stars (dd2's offer specifically asked for A stars in Further Maths and Physics). Dd2 did have a handful of tutoring sessions for Further Maths as she'd been predicted an A.

Thanks all - reassuring as it seems maybe no ridiculous combinations. I suppose a lot depends on how he finds psychology.

@titchy that's such a shame about MFL departments and years abroad - why are they difficult at the moment? I know why departments would be struggling but why would the years abroad be an issue? He has been loosely looking at economics combined with German but I'm not sure how useful that would be or perhaps how likely they are to be still available when he gets to that point?

No funding for years abroad like there was with Erasmus. Theres only Turing and unis have to bid for that with no guarantee. Visas can be complicated too - working abroad no longer possible, only study abroad. Brexit….

Thank you - I obviously should have known it was Brexit related. I suppose I naively thought that something would have been put in place to ameliorate it, which I suppose it has but it's just not as simple as it was.

Honestly it’s just my least favourite to teach and a lot of the kids I teach get forced into it by their parents which just makes it kind of depressing. When I did it myself I enjoyed it but now I’m old and slow.

Years abroad are not that difficult for MFL students if the university has partner universities abroad. Students then do not have to find their own study placements.

@pinotnow The best universities will still have decent MFL departments that are very good. They are not all closing! However if he looks at the strongest MFL departments, economics will require quite a high tariff because the best MFL universities are more at the elite end. There are universities like Bath that would probably offer Management and German but will be competitive. Working abroad is a challenge for students but university options are still there.

A level German is an order of magnitude harder than GCSE. It involves studying literature in German, and writing essays about social and historical topics in German. It's a lot harder than writing 150 words about last year's holiday. Unless he really loves German, and is willing to spend plenty of time reading and listening to German media in order to get fluent, I would not recommend German A level.

@katand2kits He got an 8 at GCSEs - his highest mark I think. So according to you what can he do? I’m somewhat glad you think MFL A level candidates must be very clever but in your reasoning no one would ever take maths A level! Also a step up! Yet over 100,000 a year do. Yes, some subjects do test the brightest minds, but they should. If everyone ducked a challenge, where would we be?

@Catsandcannedbeans I do think maths is a young person's game! I remember my now sil about 10 years ago explaining the golden ratio to my then 7 year old. He had such enthusiasm (he had just got a starred first in Maths from Cambridge (Trinity)) and as a by explained the formula for circles (I think circumference) from first principles. She was fascinated though I think it went in one ear and out the other!

I'm not saying he shouldn't do it. He is probably quite capable of it. The OP made it sound like he didn't really like the subject all that much, just the teacher. Which is not a recipe for reaching a good standard at A level. He should pick it if he actively is interested in German, not just because he got a good grade at GCSE.

@katand2kitsAs my DD did 2 MFL A levels, teaching really is vital! A great teacher is definitely worth a grade!

@CarraghInish dd3's school has stopped offering German gcse from this year. I think mfl are an easy cull. Dd3 is doing standard level Spanish IB and she nearly dropped IB and did A levels instead after her first few lessons as she found it so challenging.

I do know what you mean @katand2kits and it does concern me a bit. However, his brother has done French and done very well and has explained what the course entails so he is going in with his eyes open. I'll be really honest, if we had to go just on what he's interested in we'd probably be struggling as, despite being pretty bright and able, he's not really passionate about any of his subjects in their own right, not in the way his brother is, for example. However, as a teacher I don't actually think that's ever so unusual and I'm hoping that once he gets a better idea of what he wants to do long-term, that will inspire him in terms of his studies.

@Manthide Well thats her. Not everyone does. Some dc are just better at MFLs! Like some are better at physics and maths. The difference is schools don’t care about MFLs and neither do the Brits overall. Dc have no encouragement to continue with MFLs. They are replaced with easier subjects and we see that as equivalent.

That’s not all strictly true – just in case it puts anyone off.

I mean of course A level German is harder than GCSE German – that's true of any A level I hope. But you study only one book and one film (usually – you can pick two books but most don’t) so it’s not a massive undertaking (and in fact the analysis element of the essay on the book is worth only 20 marks out of a possible 400 total A level marks so 5%).

You study social and historical topics it’s true – things like the reunification of Germany (which is history tho I remember it haha) and the role of Germany in the EU. I think these are really interesting. But you don’t have to write essays on them. The reading and listening paper focuses on the topic work but we are talking summaries, translations and reading and listening comprehension. You also need to talk about one topic in detail for the speaking exam – but again, not an essay. I agree it's a step up from 150 words about a holiday but so it should be.

You also choose a topic for a research project for the speaking – but this could be a German football team you follow, or a German film you love; it doesn't have to be about the rise of the AfD. My dd spoke about Les Miserables (the musical) for her French.

Apologies @katand2kits if you teach MFL – I do agree with a good deal of what you say, and it’s important to love the subject – but again, I think that’s true of many A levels.

@pinotnow apologies – a bit off topic! or maybe not. I think personally any three from his suggested four would be good. Two sciences can lead to a science or economics degree; German as well could be added in as joint honours or a subsid subject. Three sciences will also open lots of doors.

DD is in a similar position. The best argument for studying German is that helps in giving you an option to study (any other subject) at a University in Germany where the fees for international students are considerably lower than the UK and at some highly regarded universities.

@1dayatatime My DD studied 2 MFLs at A level. No way would A level have prepared her to study at universities abroad where they taught in those MFLs. For university students, the year abroad is in y3. So students have had 2 years of degree level study. A level isn’t good enough. So getting a degree on the cheap might be open to native speakers but not those at A level.

Maths and Biology are a good combination and will give him the option of any kind of biological science degree if he is still interested.
For economics he would be better off dropping the psychology or German (realistically the German) and doing a humanities subject instead like history or something new like politics or philosophy if the school offers them

i'd say that the main thing (other than dodging further maths, which seems to be in hand) is definitely to do three rather than four. after that it looks relatively finely balanced. I think that maths plus an essay subject plus something else would be a great combination for a lot of degrees.

He’s gone off history though. German is a very good choice and makes him versatile. It’s not a vocational subject - it’s an academic one and as he doesn’t really know what he wants to do at university, it keeps options open. Certainly universities like and want linguists!