Tiffin's ranked mark definition

[bayesian]

Hi, am trying to gauge the entry competitiveness and catchment differences (inner vs designated). According to its admission policy,

3.14 Admission to The Tiffin Girls’ School will be determined by academic ability, which is assessed by performance in the tests. Test scores are standardised and age-weighted. Then applicants are ranked in order of their combined mark within the appropriate category of selection criteria.

5.1.2 Places will then be allocated on the basis of selection by ability as demonstrated in the School’s test procedure in rank order of the combined mark in the following priority order:

• Up to 60 girls whose combined mark is higher than or equal to the 350th ranked mark of all applicants who sat the Stage Two Test whose permanent place of residence is within the Inner Area.

• Remaining places will all be allocated from applicants who sat the Stage Two Test in rank order of the combined mark and whose residence is within the Designated Area.

I am a bit confused about ranked mark. Say there are 450 candidates, is the highest (best) mark ranked 1 or 450? So are the 10 highest marks above the 10th ranked mark or 440th ranked mark?

My impression is that the wording is ranked mark rather than ranked order, so (assume 450 stage 2 sitters) those 60 inner catchment places only go to girls achieving the top 100 marks. Therefore, it is unlikely all those 60 places to be taken up every year.

I'd read it as approx:

They order everyone.
A line is drawn at the 350th place.
They then identify up to 60 girls from that list working from the best downwards that live very close. They get places.
Then remaining places are filled top down from the list provided you are in the wide area they are willing to take from.

It basically means that 60 bright girls living very close are guaranteed a place even if not in the (say) top 200 if that is how many places there are in total.

I would say highest scorer is ranked 1. So out of the top 350 marks to be had, top 60 that live within the inner catchment will first gain a place. The remaining girls will then be given places in the order of their ranks within the merit list.

@FitnessIsTheOnlyWealth I think the highest mark is ranked nth, so the lowest mark is given a ranked mark of 1. In that case, the inner girls have to outperform the supermajority in the pool to be assigned the 60 slots rather than outperforming the minority.

Highest score would be ranked 1. The point is for the inner area to be given priority because they are closest to the school. Requiring those inner area applicants to score within the top 100 for a possible 60 places would not be a priority. Tiffin has a PAN of 180 so those in the top 100 would be offered places anyway, whether in the inner area or not.

That wouldn't make sense though.

450 sit the test. They are ranked from 1 (best) to 450 (worst).

The school doesn't want the 'no hopers' ranked 351-450. So they're out regardless of where they live.

It does want very local girls. So it takes the very local girls in the 1-350 range and takes the best 60 of them.
Then fills up the remaining spaces from the highest scoring (so rank 1) down to wherever to fill all the spaces.

@bayesian unless it is explicitly said anywhere logically - ranking is always 1 onwards starting at the top. The 60 girls in the inner catchment need to have an advantage of living closer to the school. Hence they can score from the top rank holder’s score to the 350th position score and that would ‘include them on the list of eligible’ girls for that list. Within that they have to be in the top 60 to get a place - else they get a place based on their position in the ‘generic’ list (which will likely be lower).
overall - for girls in the inner catchment - they stand a greater chance of getting a seat with a comparatively lower score than the general list. They would not need to beat the super majority as this would defeat the propose of inner catchment advantage.

It says Ranked Mark and 350th mark, literally, that refers to scoring in the top 100 in the 450 candidate pool. Otherwise, all 60 spots must be gone every year and remaining 120 shared among the inner + designated pool. Can someone ask Tiffin?

Probably it is right that the 350th mark means above the 30th percentile rather 70th percentile as else inner catchment would mean nothing in a pool of 500 stage 2 candidates

I’m pretty sure people have said before that most Tiffin spots go to the inner catchment area. It’s one of the best schools in the country and in a very wealthy area so majority of girls there will be tutored and aimed at Tiffin.

Someone said upthread that the school takes 180 students.
So imagine the top 290 are all outside the inner area, but 291-350 are within the inner area.
In that case the following get in:
Number 291...350, then numbers 1...120

If every 5th candidate is from the inner area then numbers
5, 10, 15, ......300 get in followed by 1-4, 6-9, 11-14, .... 146...149 (I think)

If only 35 inner candidates are in the top 350, then 145 others will get in.

If The top 300 are all outside, but the next 100 are inside then the following get in 301...350 then 1....130.

Yes this is the correct interpretation. It is well known that all grammar schools with inner catchment end up with a majority of children from within that catchment. Only the very top scorers from outside inner catchment but within designated areas stand a chance of getting in.

From experience - at each mark there are dozens of girls.

My kid goes there, we are not in inner area, and the vast majority of her classmates live further afield too (tho obviously within the broader catchment postcodes). Moving close to the school is a red herring

@SleepyRooster I find the location a bit difficult to commute to, it requires 2-3 bus rides / trip

It’s better if you’re on the train line

@SleepyRooster it does seem the inner area give a good admission advantage, but committing to north Kingston will make it difficult to commute to the Hammersmith or Wimbledon schools

Honestly don’t bother moving house to get into inner area! In practice the advantage of those postcodes appears to be marginal. Loads of TGS girls come from Wimbledon, New Malden, Walton, Surbiton.

@SleepyRooster New Malden and Surbiton are in the inner area. I like living near the river and Richmond/Kew too expensive, so going into the inner area is not just due to Tiffins. After all, a free school at that level is rare in SW London. If not Tiffin, I will have to fork out 35k for Latymer or G&L which is more or less the same level.

@SleepyRooster did you apply to major fee-paying names like the Hammersmith ones? Tiffin is the only state school I would consider in W SW London, else we must end up paying hefty fees..

No, the “inner area” are a few postcodes right next to the school. The applicants there have a slight advantage in the scoring. All other applicants have to come from the “designated area” which is basically all of SW London (incl Surbiton etc), and a bit of Chiswick. No marking advantage for those applicants. It’s all on the TGS site.

No, we did not apply to fee paying schools, and there are in fact many excellent state schools in the Richmond/Kingston boroughs, we are really spoilt. I would sound a note of caution on comparisons with private schools; TGS is not a “free” private education. The classes are large, the extracurriculars are OK but it is very much a state-style offering.

Inner area is defined by electorial wards, not postcode. New malden and Surbiton are in it.

Good point that it is not a "free" private education, which is what I am seeing it at this time. But as far as academic results and university placements go, it does seem like a substitute of private schools for me.

Does anyone notice the number of inner area students admitted? It seems more than 60 each year. In this case I would assume No. 61 is scored within top 180, i.e. all inner area 60 girls are also within top 180, which makes inner area has no advantage at all?

statistically, there shall be no more than 65 inner area girls admitted, as those not admitted during the priority round are not competitive.

I do not find any breakdown of admitted catchments other than at the test stages.

in any case, that might relate to the freemeal disadvantaged groups etc

our experience has been that TGS guard this info - exactly how the inner area girls are selected, and how many - very closely. You’ll get better intel on the relevant Eleven Plus forum. But from what I could see there, parents have asked all these questions via FOI and little is known. My point was, the main way to get a place is to be at least in the designated area (of course), but basically to prep and pass the test - the extra advantage inner area gives you seems minimal. So, if private fees are an option as back-up, you may as well be located in, say, Wimbledon where you can both apply to Tiffin but also go for Wimbledon and Putney, Emanuel etc .