Westminster - 11+ or 13+ application for DS

[traineettc]

Hello, We are looking into registering for Westminster for my DS. We would like to apply for 11+, but given that Westminster is now opening up admissions to girls as well, we fear that the competition will be too much for 11+, and relatively speaking, the probability of getting into 13+ (applicants to admissions ratio based on previous years) seems higher than 11+. Anyone else in the same boat? If so, will be good to get your thoughts on this. Tx

I would do both and treat the 11+ as a practice run if he doesn't get in. My DC didn't get into their preferred school at 11, but were successful at 13. I don't know if this is the case for Westminster, but generally though competition is less at 13, the number of places is also ess.

Thanks Newskool. That would have been ideal, but Westminster doesn't allow both applications - we have to choose 11+ or 13+ at the time of registering.

I’m in a similar boat — my daughter’s applying to Westminster. Luckily, she can stay at her current school until 13, so we’re leaning slightly towards 13+, though our head says it’s fiercely competitive either way.

What’s frustrating is that they’ve gone co-ed without increasing places really. There are still only about 40 spots at 11+, which were tough enough when it was boys only. Now those same places are shared between boys and girls. They might favour girls slightly to balance numbers, but it’s still an incredibly tight squeeze.

As you’ve pointed out, chances are probably better at 13+ because fewer prep schools go through Y8 nowadays, so the ratio of places to applicants is much better than at 11+. While the acceptance of girls now changes things (making it even more competitive for boys than in the past), I still think the odds are better at 13+. 11+ at Westminster Under is notoriously very difficult as you are competing against the top kids at state schools and a lot of preps for very few places.

Do Westminster not give some guidance on this? A few years ago they used to say that if your prep went to 13 then they wanted you to do the 13+ - partly because otherwise they were stripping prep schools of their brightest boys. Of course, that may no longer be the case.

Yes, Westminster does say that students should apply at 13+ if their current school goes up to Year 8 (same as St Paul's Boys). We are interested in 11+ as we want DS to join the stream sooner than later - Y7 and Y8 can be quite crucial and formative years.

Completely agree, it is quite frustrating that there are only 20 places for 11+ now! Nearly a lottery system!

But it's a great school and as you say, they are likely to favour girls for the first few years, which hopefully benefits your DD. Is your current school good for Y7 and Y8?

How's the prep going on? We are finishing up our summer holidays this week and starting to focus on some prep from next week.

Y7 and Y8 seem fine, but not as academic as boys’ preps like Sussex House.

Our daughter is backed for SPGS (with its 110–120 intake) by her head, but they’re more cautious about Westminster for her — they’ve said the school is looking for a very specific type of pupil, and being super academic in a broad sense may not be sufficient. Westminster would be our first choice, so we’re likely to aim for 13+.

All the best to your DS!

Tbh I think Westminster is going to struggle with girl candidates for a few years, so I’m not sure they can be that picky. Some families will be hesitant to send their daughters to an extremely boy-heavy school. It will be a somewhat strange environment for those girls, though I’m sure most will be fine and do well.

Also 13+ is an unusual entry point for girls these days unless the families are planning on boarding school. Very few co-ed preps go through Y8 (do any all-girls ones?), and most of the girls in those schools leave after Y6 because almost all all-girls and co-ed senior schools in London only have 11+ entry.

Fingers crossed, but from what we’ve heard from our prep head and a school consultant, it sounds unlikely. Apparently, female applicants have outnumbered male at this year’s 11+, and interest at 4+ and 7+ was so high they had to cap registrations at 500 (?) shortly after opening.

If Westminster were taking 100+ girls, the academic bar might shift slightly in the early years. But with just 20–30 places for girls and a vast pool — including strong state school applicants on generous bursaries — there’s no need to compromise on standards.

Personally, I think they should really consider expanding 11+ and scaling back 13+, now that the door is open to girls. As it stands, it doesn’t seem entirely fair on either boys or girls.

That’s interesting about application numbers, though doesn’t necessarily translate into offer acceptances. But I definitely agree that they should find some way to scale back 13+ now that they’re taking girls. Also still not quite sure why they didn’t just limit the start of the co-ed process to the bottom years (7+ and now 4+) - adding girls to all-boys years in Y7 (and then more in Y9) seems complicated.

Lots of families with daughters applying to Westminster because they like the ethos of coed and very few coed schools in Central London area. The curriculum and academic set up really fits with some families that don’t want the all girls schools “it is fine’ and don’t worry approach and prefer the detailed reporting system of Westminster. Harder for boys with less spaces available.

Thanks! Good luck to your DD too.

It is definitely very hard for both boys and girls, but I would think it's nearly impossible to ensure that they fill in equal numbers of boys and girls at 13+ and maintain the same standards.

Also, I hear that Westminster focuses more on English (than Maths results - maybe because boys tend to be better at Maths rather than English at that age?) - which is clearly a significant advantage for girls. So, maybe they might even take more girls than boys at 13+.

A boy in my DS’s class received an 11+ offer from Westminster despite their current school going through to 13. I believe he was the only one who applied for 11+ entry. This is obviously just one boy, but it does seem that despite what Westminster says, they do accept that kind of application. I don’t know if there were any special circumstances though (but to be frank, he wasn’t as strong a candidate as others).
I asked Kings whether they looked negatively on 11+ applications from schools that went through to 13 and they said it’s entirely up to applicants to decide.
You still need a good reference from your current school so consider whether they might be annoyed to lose two years of expected fees as well! Good luck!

This is an interesting point. What you’ve described is essentially the approach KCS is taking — a slow, phased transition. Girls will join from Year 3 in 2029, moving up each year and always being the oldest girls in the school. The school won’t be fully co-ed until around 2037, and girls will remain heavily outnumbered for quite some time.

Westminster’s rollout is very different. From 2026, girls will enter at Reception, Years 3, 7, and Sixth Form, with more cohorts added annually. It’s undoubtedly more complex to implement, but I actually think it creates a better environment for the girls themselves — my daughter, for instance, would feel more part of the school community from day one.

As I understand it, it works something like this:
2026. Girls in reception, Years 3, 7, 12 & 13
2027Girls in Years R, 1, 3, 4, 7, 8, 12 & 13
2028. Girls in Years R–5, 7–9, 12 & 13
2029 Girls in all years except Year 11
2030 Fully co-ed across the school

They’ve clearly thought hard about the co-ed provision, but the critical thing they still need to get right is the main entry point for girls. It is 11+, and the number of places offered should reflect that. I’d much rather my daughter join at 11, when friendships and school culture are forming, than be one of a small handful girls arriving at 13. Definitely something to think about. Well — that’s if she can secure an offer, of course!

Currently, they take almost all girls at 16+. Have they said what they intend to do with 16+ entries for 2030, when they will have girls coming up from Y11? Will they go to 50/50 at that point?

I think you are mistaken in your analysis of 11+ vs 13+. 11+ is for entry to the under school, 13+ for the great school. They are in different locations. The 13+ entry from the under school and elsewhere gets thoroughly mixed up and allocated into small groups of 10-12 to individual houses. Even if friendships were forged at 11+ they wld probably be separated at 13+. Most if not all the teachers are different in the great school, as are the classrooms. It is not like at say Highgate where they used to have an 11+ entry and then some additional students arrived via 13+ in year 9. It’s more like going to one school for years 7&8 and a new school for years 9-11.

It is possible that in the future the great schools starts at year 7, but until it does, the main entry point will be year 9.

This was to answer @Thistooshallpass77