Help with triple or combined science

[Dyslex]

Hi
DC at the end of year 9. Has severe dyslexia so slow processing speeds etc but great ability (top 5%) Has a TA and entitled to extra time etc. One of the main struggles is showing knowledge on paper - would be so much easier if GCSE answers could be verbal!

DC good at maths and on target for higher and will want to pursue science/maths or computer studies at A level and uni etc. DC would like to do separate sciences but teacher is concerned at the volume of the content and feels that DC will do better at combined science higher but is agreeing that DC has the ability to do separates,

DC’s Year 9 assessment was 73% chemistry, 68% physics and 58%

There is only 1 class for separate sciences and it seems reserved for those who scored the very highest marks. We understand and appreciate the teacher’s comments but there is a feeling that it might be easier for the school if DC didn’t do separate. Quite happy to accept it may be us with a bit of paranoia because we’ve constantly struggled to make sure DC’s ability is acknowledged.

Any input and experience from others would be so much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Does it take an option up?
There is a lot of content in combined already.

If triple is done at a faster speed could that be an issue? But if done as an option with eg 5hrs extra per fortnight maybe that is better than whatever else he would do?

You can do A level sciences from combined, but check whether target 6th forms are OK with it to be on the safe side.

Thank you for responding.

Yes - it does take up an option but definitely likes sciences. I think it’s as much about feeling pushed to do combined when he has the ability to do separates.

Thank you for the tip about 6th forms.

Yes agree with teen, a key question is how triple is assigned. Is it an option block (ie more time given to it than double) or is it just done more quickly in the same time? My younger DC both did triple in the same time as others did double (so they took 10 GCSEs not nine) – IIRC DD says they missed a lesson of maths one week and English the next as well.

For your DS it might be better then if the triple were an option.
ETA: I see you say it does take up an option - I think Teen was saying (I am anyway) that that is a good thing as it allows more time to cover the content.

Another factor to consider is that if you do triple – you are basically doing three separate GCSEs, one in each science (I know you know that but bear with) – so you can, if appropriate, do a combo higher and foundation papers – so on your DS's grades maybe (maybe) higher phys and chem and F bio? In addition, a poor performance in one less-favoured science will (obviously) not pull down the others.

Whereas for combined, you do F for all of it or H for all of it, and a poorer grade in one science will affect your overall grade.

So as a rather spiky example, if a candidate were looking at 9 in bio, 8 in chem and 4 in phys, triple with a F paper for phys might be an idea. They could then take great grades forward for bio and chem A levels. But if they did combined they would get (say) an overall grade of 6-7 or even 6-6 which might be looked on less favourably for A levels.

Thank you - I really appreciate what you are saying which makes such a lot of sense.

School does devote more lesson time to separate sciences as it removes an option but only holds 1 class for students whereas there are 3 classes for combined. Another parent has said that for their oldest child it meant that they were not given the option of separate because only the top performing students were given those places in the 1 class. DC isn’t being denied a place in separates (as other students have been) but we feel quite strong pressure for DC to elect combined because of the carrot of more chance of achieving higher grades that way.

However I was really interested in the comments because DC is more mathematical and enjoys the maths involved in physics and chemistry which also seems to show in their current assessment marks. I certainly think there is a high chance they will do better at chemistry and physics which makes me wonder why combined is being pushed because biology is 10% below chemistry so likely to pull down the overall marks.

I have absolutely no benchmark in terms of year 9 assessments. Can anyone please help and comment as to whether are DC’s marks compatible with someone who could achieve a grade 6 or above in separate?

Thank you again for your help.

I have absolutely no benchmark in terms of year 9 assessments. Can anyone please help and comment as to whether are DC’s marks compatible with someone who could achieve a grade 6 or above in separate?

Unfortunately there’s no way for an outsider to know, without knowing what has been covered so far and what kind of level the year 9 tests were set at. There could even be a disparity across subjects, with (say) physics being an easier paper or biology including some work barely covered or even not covered in class. The best people to talk to are his science teachers.

Has he submitted options (he must have done) and requested triple? I can’t see anything against doing it if it’s an option tbh - if he did double, yes less content but also in less lesson time.

I would think if he is in the top 25% or so for science they would definitely be hoping he would get grade 6 or above.

Note to do A level science you may find 7s are required, and you will almost certainly find that a 7 is needed in math to do maths A level.

If he enjoys science and puts the effort into revising (for y10 end of topic tests, end y10 exams, y11 mocks as well as the final things) then triple sounds reasonable.

Get the CGP guides from the start, they are v good for science.

In case you are unsure, the extra triple content isn't harder it is just 'more'. So additional topics of a similar difficulty to the rest.

Where as foundation tier (capped at grade 5) cuts out the harder bits).

DS just finished combined. He was better at C + P - the teacher advised him to concentrate on these towards the end, as better marks in these would improve his overall score, rather than being concerned that a low B score would pull it down. He's heading to sixth form to study computing.

Thank you so much for your input and advice - very much appreciated.

Maths is a favourite subject and a 7 or above is expected. DC loves to learn and puts a lot of effort and enjoyment into study and revision.

DC has the ability but the severity of dyslexia pulls exams grades down so we’re now focusing on techniques to improve this. Ability definitely in top 25% but in terms of exam grades probably on the edge of that % at the moment.

Following all your advice (particularly the advice that content is more but not harder) I’ve asked about the possibility of swopping to combined at the end of year 10 or dropping one of the other options to focus on science.

Thank you again

I wouldn’t imagine he could swap tho if triple is option block - what would he instead? Impossible to pick up another option at end of year 10.

Ditto dropping an option - to do what? Unless he can spend the allocated time in the SEN hub which may well be possible of course.

If he does triple as a timetabled option - so (say) eight lessons per week instead of5 or 6 - I can’t see how it would be an issue tbh.

Thanks for your reply.

If the grades at separate are not looking like a higher at middle to the end of year 10 our thoughts were (depending on issues and how happy and well DC is doing)

• remaining on separate sciences but completely dropping 1 other GCSE (e.g.history) to free up time (lesson and study) to focus on separate sciences or
• moving to combined and again using that extra time (more teaching/lessons in separate) to focus on higher combined science grades.

This is on the basis that DC is likely to need grade 7 for relevant maths and 6’s and 7’s for computer and/or science GCSE and will still have enough GCSEs to meet general A level entrance criteria (which seems to be another 4-5 GCSEs at grade 4 or 5 excluding the additional subject which you are applying to study).

Yes, there is opportunity to spend any freed up time at school with a one to one TA in the SEN department.

Does this sound like it may be feasible or rather delusional? 😁

Thank you again

Ah yes, if there is a place for him to go which is staffed (this is as much about safeguarding as anything) then yes that’s totally feasible (as long as the school is on board obvs, but I imgine they would be).

I was concerned bc sometimes posters talk blithely about "DC can drop xyz subject" but they have to be somewhere doing something and for a lot of schools that’s not feasible. They can’t just sit quietly in the library as they would not be supervised. But in your DS's case happy days. I bet tho as I say if there is actually more timengiven to triple than say my DC had, it will all be fine. Especially if he is keen on science and maths.

If separate science take up an option block then you end up with fewer exams. There are 6 exams for combined or separate science. (Separate slightly longer) If you did combined plus another you would have 8 exams instead of 6 (or 9 if you did geography). So it might be a good strategy - check your exam boards but how it worked for DD

ooh yes great point. Triple has the same number of exams as double, so using an option means no GCSE with four exams if you would have picked MFL instead! Triple exams are longer tho which as your DS has extra time might make them very long indeed.

Thank you. I also appreciate your concern. There are absolutely no safeguarding concerns about having spare lesson time in school and in fact the time could be used really well.

Yes I think it would be better to have less exams and I hadn’t really focused on that. I know the separate sciences are longer but DC can take breaks too which may be really helpful.

Having read all the advice I think separate sciences could work really well and to be honest you’ve all kindly raised lots of plus points. I can’t shake the feeling that the school are perhaps raising concerns over content when it might just be that it would be easier for them if DC doesn’t do separate. Am I being cynical?

Thank you

My ASC/ADHD child who also struggled with showing knowledge on paper did triple science. The school were not kidding when they said it was a lot of content. The syllabus is huge. There is so much to cover; the vast majority of his revision time was taken up with it.

The way we tackled helping him learn how to answer the questions was by doing masses and masses of past papers. Which I marked and we went through question by question what they had been looking for and how he had lost marks. By the end he had learnt a lot of the way to answer questions by rote! And he ended up getting 100% in some of his science papers whereas he had failed most of his mocks, so it made a huge difference.

There is less writing in Science as quite a few short responses or calculations required.

Another option if triple gets too much is that he does higher tier for phys/chem and foundation tier for biology, so that there is less biology content to deal with. If the school normally expects that everyone in the triple set does higher for all three, they might need a bit of convincing. However if biology is much the weakest, it would be the sensible option.
If he's a sensible kid then he could still attend all the triple lessons, but get on with some revision work quietly while the others are tackling the extra topics for higher biology.

Thank you - its great to hear that other children who have struggled have done so well! great point about exam tuition and we will definitely be doing past papers.

Also a great idea to look at higher for 2 sciences and foundation for one. I’m sure that the school will need a lot of convincing but definitely a great option.

Ultimately it’s about DC doing what’s necessary to get to the next stage at A level!

Thank you

DS is in y9 has inattentive ADHD - he's quite good at science and wanted to do triple at gcse. School advised against as they felt he might have difficulty keeping up with the fast pace given they have a lot to get through and he already struggles to keep up, so he would get better results in double science and that seemed sound, so he chose something else. So it could be a tough call to keep up if dyslexic perhaps.

Have his access arrangements checked - some students do use scribes. This can be an AA.

The reduced content of dual helps with results - stats show students do better than on triple so locally many schools no longer offer triple. The overlap between the GCSE and A level contents is an afternoon’s work so students are better with higher grades rather than three slightly lower ones.

He would be in a set where higher tier content is taught, so any decision could be put off until after y11 mocks.

If he has the ability but slower processing keeping up with learning as he goes along in y10 will be key, he won't be able to just cram everything for the first time for mocks.

This is brilliant advice. Practising past papers for maths and the sciences really does make a difference especially for biology - both at GCSE and at A level. Biology needs answers in a very specific way and while the content might be correct if it hasn't been answered the way the exam board want it answered then points are lost.

Using past papers and the mark schemes can overcome this.

DD did loads of past papers for maths and the sciences and did exceptionally well. The young person needs to understand exam technique and well as content.

Her school used an option up for triple science so the double science students did 10 hours a fortnight and the triple science students did 15 hours a fortnight, but one less extra option than the double science students.

DD took her GCSEs before the reforms so double science was 6 exams and triple science was 9 exams.

The posters saying triple is too fast-paced and too much work – was triple timetabled into the same time as double at your DCs' schools or was it an option as with the OP's DC's school?

Bc if it was just done int he same lessons (like my DC) then I agree you need to be able to keep up and be pretty good at science. But if it’s an option, I don’t see any issue with the extra content – the student has 3 (or whatever number) extra lessons each week on those taking combined.

Hi thank you for your input and support.

just some more background information. Based on DCs ability and the severity of dyslexia DC now has a higher level TA (only in place last few months). The idea is that the TA will also be able to act as scribe and reader if necessary/appropriate.

We have been advised today that if DC does combined science then DC has a greater chance of higher level and can drop 1 GCSE which would allow that time to be spent 1-1 with the TA. However we have also been told that if DC does separate sciences they can not drop 1 GCSE and so will not have extra 1-1 time with their TA. This doesn’t make sense to me but I’m wonder if I’m too close.

Decisions about higher and foundation are apparently made in year 11 (I think Christmas).

TBH I feel like the school are indicating that they don’t want DC in separate sciences but, because of DCs ability they’re not actually saying this (assume this is to do with school starts etc).

Any input/help will much appreciated.
thanks