A level choices - computing without maths?

[MiniMidiMaxi]

DS (y10) is pretty academic - on track for grades 7-9 in his GCSEs, strongest in essay based subjects. But also loves coding. He’s interested in doing Computing A level (does it at GCSE) but will struggle I think with A level Maths. The other subject he’s currently keen on for A level is Philosophy, he’s not sure yet about the third, maybe French, English Lit.

Would A level Computing be extra hard without doing maths too? Also thinking about what this kind of combo could lead to, in an ideal world he’d do something that combined creative thinking / writing with coding.

He needs to find out the answers to two questions:

1. Is A Level CS particularly hard without maths? He can ask his teachers.

1. Will a CS A Level be useful or lead onto anything without maths? There are several websites that will tell him which uni courses can be done with a particular combination of ALevels.

For instance I looked at the Russel Group site Informed Choices and CS didn’t come up as a possible degree for CS, Philosophy and French. If he's not looking at Uni he still needs to research what he can do with CS without maths. Of course, he can take it just out of interest, as long as his other A Levels are enough to support his intended next step.

Just to flag - many CS degrees ask for maths A level rather than CS. I think it would be unusual to do CS and not maths, but agree, see what the teachers think. Why would maths A level be a struggle?

Thanks both. Yes I’m assuming it would rule out a typical CS or software engineering degree if he didn’t take Maths.

He’s probably likely to be predicted a grade 7 for Maths, his elder brother is currently doing Maths A level (and doing well) so I have a sense of the demands and standard - he’s likely to get stronger A level grades in other subjects.

Good shout to ask his teacher about the difficulty of the course without Maths - it’s not a prerequisite in the sixth form prospectus, so he ‘could’ do it in theory.

interestingly I just found this analysis which suggests that those who do Maths A level as well as CS get about one grade higher in CS, but most of that is explained by prior GCSE Maths attainment. That’s somewhat reassuring.

I wonder if he could do Core Maths as an extra subject and if that would be enough.

CS A level without maths would be ok as long as his GCSE grade was reasonable say 6+. It's not as dependent on the maths in A level as say Physics.
Most of the higher ranked CS degrees ask for Maths A level but there are lots that don't, or just ask for a science. DC has just finished the first year of a CS degree and it has been very maths heavy.
Don't think core maths would necessarily add anything.

Newcastle University does not require Maths for a CS degree as they teach the maths they want their students to know during the first year. Entry requirements are AAB with preferably a 6 in GCSE maths. CS at A level would be a plus.

I looked round last year and loved it. Definitely have it on your Open Day list.

Students in my school seem to do absolutely fine on CS without Maths A level, It's more of he wants to take CS further his university choices ( especially at the top of the league tables) maybe limited . Not every subject has to be related to your career.

That’s really good to know, thank you!

I've just finished a PhD in comp sci at a top ten uni, I don't have an a level in maths (I started it but dropped it and did environmental science instead).

A Level Computing does not require A Level Maths in parallel. A Level Computing is easy compared to A Level Maths, trust me.

Most of the Russell Group universities do ask for A Level Maths at grade A but other universities don’t. There are decent universities that don’t ask for it at all.

I’m not aware of any universities that ask for A Level Computing for a Computer Science BSc.

My son is currently sitting his A level exams in CS, French and History. He is not a strong mathematician and his A level group is divided by 2 strengths- Maths or computing theory. My son is strong at the computing theory and has struggled with the coding element, which makes up 1/3 of one of the 3 papers, and the majority of the coursework (NEA) he has done. He has done really well on the NEA because he invested a lot of time into it to make up for his weaker maths/coding skill.
The universities he has applied to only accept CS undergrads with Maths, but he has applied to study History anyway.
Of all of his subjects, CS is the one that worries him the most. But maths A level was not necessary for him to achieve in CS A level. Those studying maths seemed to tearing their hair out at the theory papers that my son does well in.
I know that’s not a definitive answer, but if your son enjoys CS as a springboard to studying another subject at degree level, then it’s well worth considering.

My son is just finishing A level computer science and is predicted an A* and he didn’t do maths A level, he did Geography and Physics.
He’s been offered a place at Nottingham to do Computer Science with AAB results. Despite being a Russell Group uni, maths A level wasn’t a requirement for them, although lots of other top universities do ask for it. He was also offered places at Leicester and Coventry, again they didn’t ask for maths, so it’s definitely not a pre-requisite everywhere.
The other things he’s looking at are degree apprenticeships in IT and cybersecurity. Again, not all of these ask for maths. He particularly wants a degree, but there are loads of level 4 and 5, IT apprenticeships that don’t want maths if a degree isn’t the be all and end all.

Maths and computing at A level are completely unrelated. Speak to his teachers.

@MadMumOfTwoHorrors that's interesting – how has your DS found physics A level without maths A level? It’s often suggested hat it’s not a good idea (tho someone did it in DS2's year. No idea what grade they got tho).

I've taught CS A Level.You don't need maths a level, but we prefer it as those that do maths/physics tend to do better and those doing humanities subjects often end up under achieving/dropping it. There are always exceptions and those are usually the self taught programmers who love coding and work really hard. If this is your son, he'll be fine.

We did wonder at the time if he’d struggle with physics, and his teachers said they could offer extra help if needed, but he’s not needed it at all. In fact, I think everyone has been pleasantly surprised at how well he’s been doing and he’s predicted an A. I think it helps that he has quite a mathematical brain despite not being taught maths any more.

Hi @MiniMidiMaxi !

There is also IT A Level. May be worth finding out about this more practical subject and where he could study it.

mine isn’t doing maths with CS. I know quite a few who aren’t. Mainly because they still want to keep a broad range of subjects and not go all in for computer science
for dd I’ve said to her if she needs maths at a later date she will just have to spend another year doing it.
it’s not the end of the world

My DS did CS at Warwick and needed grade A A LEVEL maths. He still found some of it really hard. However, you can just learn coding as a post graduate course at somewhere like Cranfield University. I would say be mindful of doing A levels that you could teach at GCSE in case he ends up teaching in the future.

ICT as an A Level was scrapped a few years ago. The other alternatives are Digital T Levels or BTEC/CTEC.

I can recommend Craig n Dave on Youtube for supporting his computer science GCSE. They also cover A level if he wanted to look ahead. You don't need maths for computer science A level however, if he is applying to very high ranking unis they want maths and a lot of applicants for those courses will also have further maths.

I know this doesn't apply to your child but usually courses like Physics A level are supported with Core Maths if students are not taking maths A level. However if a child achieved a grade 9 at GCSE for maths then they tend to find the maths side of physics easier.

A brilliant maths teacher (noblegiraffe) posts to remind parents and students, a grade 7 at maths GCSE is likely to see a grade D or C at A level due to missing underlying concepts. There are outliers but students struggle.

A levels should be chosen based on enjoyment of the subject because they are more likely to engage with the learning. There are plenty of computer science courses that do not require maths A level and are less maths heavy as a result. My son was looking ahead at universities at this point in year 10 to see what courses there were out there, especially the combinations of subjects you could do. I don't think it is ever too early to look.