Bullers Wood School for Boys - Pastoral Care and SEN Provision

[PeanutbutterAndJelly1]

We are considering a move from SE3 to Bickley, to allow us to upsize our family home. DS8 is autistic, he is academically able (either on track or above average across the curriculum), with needs centring around emotional wellbeing - no disruptive behaviours. In fact, he is a masker and has always been described as a "model student". Things are however, very different at home at the end of a school day, and he often voices his dislikes for school. No EHCP in place, and unlikely to get one.

Given his challenges, we would only commit to a move if we feel the local school options could work for him.

Would anyone be able to share what the SEN provision is like at Bullers Boys?
Any feedback on what the pastoral care is like?
Are those without an EHCP well catered for?
Do you feel they have a good understanding of SEN?
What is the communication between school and parents like?

Feedback on other schools in the same catchment are also most welcomed! Thanks in advance.

Why do you think he wouldn't get an EHCP? My similar sounding daughter has one.

However, that's not the point of your post.

I haven't been impressed with Bromley re SEN but they're not the worst. Hopefully some posters will come along with more specific info about the school.

No idea about this particular school, but with that profile, are you sure an all boys school is a good idea? If I went comp with my autistic DS I do not think it would have worked. He went to a grammar with a lot of boys who were clever and quiet so he was fine there, but I would not have wanted an all boys comp, especially not because at primary he liked playing with girls.

That's true, OP could consider St Olave's.

I was thinking more Sidcup and Chislehurst Grammar School as it is mixed and has a SEND hub (I think). It’s less high pressure to pass the Bexley test as well. In any event, it’s worth trying to get an EHCP to name a suitable school. Hayes secondary in Hayes has a good reputation. But you want a paid for bus ideally with an autistic child or be a walk away.

St Olaves is a super selective grammar. Boys apply from a wide area. To pass you have to not only be super bright but score better than the other boys. It's always worth trying the exam but it's not one that you can move to be in catchment of.

Yes, I know.

You'd presumably pick somewhere you could get to a range of schools and stations to keep options open.

Thanks for the replies : )

@Needlenardlenoo Our school's SENCO felt that it's unlikely, given his lack of presentation in school. He has in fact been removed from the SEN register and is on SEN monitoring only. I understand that we can apply as parents ourselves, and disregard what school says, so we do have an EP lined up and will be taking advice from her once he has been assessed. Would you mind sharing the type of adjustments your daughter has managed to get with that type of profile?

@Araminta1003 Good to hear that an all boys grammar has worked for your DS. Did he ever feel there was lots of competition from the other boys at all? We feel the quieter (making assumptions here), more academic environment would work really well for our DS, but not necessarily the high pressure side of things, given his tendency to worry and be a perfectionist. So we do need a solid state option, especially as anything can happen on exam day, regardless of whether we decide to try for it or not. Bickley seems to tick a lot of boxes for us, other than the nearest secondary not being co-ed, which was our preference - hence the post to find out more about Bullers Boys. We did initially look at Hayes because of the co-ed comp there, but it seems very much a trek to Chis and Sid from Hayes, and we do want to keep options open at this stage.

Hi OP, I relied on the part of the SENCOP that discusses children who achieve in school but at the price of much more support and resources than normal.

A wise friend, whose daughter was diagnosed with autism at 14 by which point she already had an eating disorder, was selectively mute and having difficulty attending school, said to me "you do not want to need an EHCP when you are already in a crisis".

So the accommodations DD has had are seemingly small: enhanced transition; a person to meet with every week, sessions for emotions in the first half term; safer travel training; but behind the scenes they had a TA in all her classes to begin with to see what support she needed (I teach at the school so I know exactly what they did). They can never say to me "but you never told us...." - they know!

The other plus is that with the EHCP you can get the LA (with effort and maybe a tribunal) to name a school that you don't live in catchment for. DD attends a school in a different borough.

Bromley do have a non statutory SEN funding support system that schools can apply for. It's needs based and only lasts one year. So there is that option if the school is willing to apply.

Have you contacted the SENCO at Bullers Wood? There's also Bishop Justus, Ravensbourne and Ravens Wood you could consider on that side of the Borough (mixed CofE, mixed, boys).

Acquaintances with "neurodiverse but we're not going to go public" boys seem to like Beaverswood (private, mixed, tiny).

If you Google "London Borough of Bromley" and "Funded Inclusion Plans" you'll find details. I wouldn't recommend that route though as I depends entirely on having a decent SENCO and they won't be able to apply till the summer term of year 7, by which point autistic DC who are ging to struggle with the transition are already struggling.

https://www.bromley.gov.uk/special-educational-needs/special-educational-needs-disabilities-choosing-school-college Bromley's own advice is perfectly sensible but as you no doubt know, you can't trust a local authority to actually give you any personalised advice re school and it is awfully hard on the "outside" to find out if schools genuinely give support or are going through the motions. It is so staff dependent too and that can change a lot in a few years.

I'd say one good sign that a school does have suitably experienced staff is that they have the average (or higher) number of students with EHCP, whether or not your own child has one. There is a govt website where you can check those kinds of stats. I mentioned the boys' grammar in Orpington, however, they have zero students with EHCP so if your boy is academically ok but not top drawer and doesn't like competition, forget that suggestion I think! I worked in a super selective grammar myself for some years and I absolutely would not have sent my daughter there due to the lack of support for anyone out of the ordinary in that way (not that she would have consented to do all the prep anyway...)

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england type the school name in here and then click on 'Absence and pupil population'. On the metrics SEN support above national average and EHCP plan at or above national average, Bullers' Wood Boys, Ravens Wood and Hayes are the three that look best (obviously those are only statistics - you definitely want to speak to the SENCO, visit the schools and try to speak to current parents).

@PeanutbutterAndJelly1 My autistic DS is actually very competitive at Maths and Science. We also always did a lot of music groups outside school with girls involved, because my DS needs female friends too. I also engineered the sports side by making sure he learnt the school sport somewhat in clubs so he did do some matches. Cannot say he particularly likes team sport though, but I found he needs exercise.
At all boys grammars in and around London there is a mix of boys, but of course, it is indeed quite competitive.
There is also Judd in Tonbridge. If you are close to the station in Bickley it would be doable for a NT child, but again with autism and burnout and train changes, it would worry me, especially at just 11.

Ask Bullers Wood Boys if they set for Maths now. When it opened I do not think they did until later on.
There is also Ravenswood in that area, which has a top Maths and Science stream and a bigger catchment, but it is a big school.

Did you consider the grammars in Sutton? Are you definitely set on moving to the Bromley area?

Finally, right now the fashion for uni seems to be Imperial College London (Oxbridge is out) and the train line from the Bromley area is convenient for that too. A lot of kids are staying home after the first year now. This is really looking far ahead now though and assuming your DS has a similar profile to mine. He may be completely different!

Slightly off topic but just so you're aware, the ONLY legal test for a local authority to carry out an EHCP needs assessment is this:

If a local authority (LA) is requested to carry out an EHC needs assessment by a parent, young person, school or college, it must consider:

• whether the child or young person has or may have special educational needs (SEN); and
• whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an EHC plan.

If the answer to both of these questions is yes, the LA must carry out an EHC needs assessment.

(This is from the IPSEA website - which I do recommend you take a look at.)

I have known Sencos to give out incorrect information - sometimes parroting unlawful nonsense from local authorities ('students need to be two years' behind academically', 'students must have been through several review stages first').

It may be that your DS wouldn't meet the bar for an EHCP but it's important you know the law.

I have known DC at grammar schools with an EHCP so it's not 'just' about academics.

I would also say that it's often a catch-22 situation when looking at schools: those with a good reputation for SEN support then attract more SEN students. Schools then struggle to support them as there isn't adequate funding (especially without EHCPs). There are schools near me that have a third of their intake with SEN.

I would also say that I know some DC with autism who are managing well at secondary without an EHCP. Some schools are prepared to make what seem like quite minor adjustments which can make a massive difference - eg allowing some students to go early for lunch, giving students a time out pass, having a quiet space at lunchtimes etc.

I think @PeanutbutterAndJelly1 - you should probably go and attend the open days at various schools and then make a decision based on that. It will likely give you a much better feel for where you can see your DS fit in well. A lot of the grammar ones are coming up now.
Sid & Chis I think is an outlier in that they insist on the kid passing the test before attending the open day but maybe if you speak to them they may make an exception for an autistic kid.
Choosing the right secondary is SO important for autistic children, in particular.
And I second getting the EHCP because they you likely get a choice of school (subject to passing the academic test, in the case of grammars).

If you are pursuing grammars then two more bits of info: St Olave's has zero EHCP currently and a tiny percentage on SEN support. Judd has an ASD resource base but it only has 4 places and you'd need an EHCP to access them as well as an extremely high score in the Kent Test. Bexley grammars are definitely worth looking into.

If you moved into Bromley before say Christmas, you'd likely have sufficient time to get an EHCP in place before secondary even if it requires tribunal(s).

Once you have a new primary place you could do a SAR to the old primary. It might be rather revealing!

O wow, I am ever so grateful for all the info here. It's given me a lot more to think about. Seems like plenty more digging is needed before we commit to anything.

@Needlenardlenoo Thanks for sharing the accommodations your DD gets through her EHCP, they sound exactly like the type of things that my DS would benefit from. We don't require intense interventions by any means, but he does need someone to keep an eye on him and make minor adjustments, as he won't voice anything himself!

I haven't come across funded inclusion plans before, so will look into this and see what it's all about. But as you have alluded, an actual EHCP is obviously the much better option if we can get one.

No, I haven't contacted any SENCOs of the Bromley secondaries yet. I didn't think they would be interested, as we haven't actually moved into the area yet. But maybe I should be more proactive on that front.

@Araminta1003 Glad to know I'm not the only one to have engineered the sports side of things 😂If given the choice, DS wouldn't touch any sports at all, as he thinks he's no good, even before trying. So for us, it's our avenue to show him that he can step out of his comfort zone.

But no, we are not 100% set on moving to Bromley. We're in a lucky position I guess where in theory, we could actually move anywhere, as long as there is reasonable access back into the city for DH - family ties are all up north. Bromley does seem to tick a lot of boxes for us though, predominantly when balancing house prices and train times. I'm aware of the grammars in Sutton, but have yet to properly explore them. Is there something that you think the grammars and/ or state comps in Sutton can offer, which would be above the Bromley ones?

@Toomanyminifigs Yes, I'm aware of the legal test. Things got quite bad for us over the spring term, so I ran out on bandwidth on the EHCP front, and focused my search on getting some immediate help for DS instead. I should really resume on that, but the current turmoil with abolishing EHCPs in mainstream is very much worrying me. I guess I've gone down the route of working with the worst case scenario where, if we can't get an EHCP, where can we find the best school for providing the much needed understanding, nurture and support, together with an environment where academics is celebrated.

I completely agree with you on the catch 22 comment. We definitely have one of those schools in our area. I visited and can't imagine DS would survive there, given that his needs are much less obvious. I'm interested to hear though, for autistic DC without an EHCP that are managing well - are their secondaries ones with units or just box standard comps? Or does it very much just depend on the school?

The whole thing is such a complete minefield...

@PeanutbutterAndJelly1 - if you are not set yet on area or comp vs grammar, then Park Langley Boys in Beckenham is a really lovely school and may be worth looking at as well.

The Sutton grammars are good as well, Wallington, Sutton and Wilson’s (although the latter is superselective).

If you are going to move anyway, it may just be easier to move into catchment of a school like Park Langley. That is if you can get more house for your money vs SE3 because that area is no longer cheap either.

I've also heard good things about Park Langley Boys. It also has a designated special provision for autism and I think the profile of student they take sounds like it might suit your DS. I believe he would need - or be working towards - an EHCP though.

I have also heard the rumours about the government's possible plans around changes to SEN support - I think this is even more of a reason to apply sooner rather than later.
If you have to appeal both refusal to assess and refusal to issue, you could be looking at 2 years. In which case it would still give you time before secondary transfer.

My DS is also described as a 'model student'. He sounds quite similar to your DS. He also has autism. He's Yr10 now and is pulling in 8's and 9's in his GCSE mocks because he's been well supported in secondary school. His EHCP support has enabled him to achieve things I wouldn't have thought possible.

In terms of the students I know who are doing well without EHCPs - they are in 'normal' mainstream comps. They tend to be in smaller schools and again, they're students who have no behavioural issues and are quite academically able. Being brutal, I suspect some schools are more willing to make minor adjustments for those students who will 'bring something to the table' (ie decent exam results) and who aren't asking for any additional funding (printing out a toilet pass costs nothing!).

I would also say, that it's often not the 'Ofsted Outstanding' schools that are the most accommodating to SEN students, in fact often the reverse. So don't rule out any schools without actually visiting them. Also make sure they have a wide range of clubs. Clubs can be a good place for DC to 'hide' but also to find like-minded peers.

@Toomanyminifigs is right about clubs. My Lego club in school is like a who's who of the neirodiverse!

@Araminta1003 Adding Park Langley Boys onto my list to investigate!

@Toomanyminifigs Sounds like your DS is doing exceptionally well, you must be so proud. It gives me so much reassurance to know that it is possible for these kids to be well supported and do well. It breaks my heart when I see mine struggle. His current school is lovely, but I just don't think they quite get where the gaps are for supporting him in the best way.

Glad to learn that smaller schools work well, I've been leaning towards finding a smaller school, and Bullers Boys seems to tick that box. Thanks for the tip on clubs by the way. If there's anything else I should look for in a school, please do let me know!

Anyhow, we will be spending some time in the area over the weekend, hoping all will be within expectations!