What to do about DD15

[Barbarachicken]

DD15 got 5's and 6's in Y10 mocks. She is a bright child but seriously lacking in motivation and seems to believe that she is less smart than she actually is. We have had a couple of heated discussions where she says that she will be happy with all 5s in her GCSEs, (or even 4s in some subjects) as she doesn't want to go to University or do anything academic. She is talking about doing an apprenticeship but she seems to think this is the easier option and doesn't grasp that she will still have to apply for these/prove herself etc.

She surrounds herself with peers who are not as academic as her, which makes her believe she is doing well, as in comparison, she is! She is not bothered by past friends who are more intellectual. I feel sad that she doesn't wish to apply herself, as it feels such a waste. But she just doesn't seem to want to push herself at all. She is more concerned with being popular and sociable.

I know grades are not the be all and end all but I am struggling with knowing how to manage her over the coming year. Nagging does not seem to work but she will literally do nothing/bare minimum if we don't tell her to get on with her work / remove distractions. Any words of wisdom please?

This feels unfamiliar territory to me as I was a shy studious child who did well academically - GCSEs all grade 7, A levels then Uni etc. Admittedly this did not come easy to me as I am not naturally gifted and had to graft!

Please be kind as am feeling very conflicted with all this.

She is 15 and has plenty of time to find her mojo. One of mine cruised along until he got a part time job as a kitchen porter and realised that he might be stuck there forever. I used to be pulling my hair out, he didn’t get onto the uni course he wanted and did a ‘lesser’ one but eventually applied himself.
He’s 28 this year, has a job in the film industry, lovely international girlfriend.. They don’t have a properly functioning frontal lobe til they’re 25, keep all doors open, she might surprise you.

My Son was like this, we drilled it into to him that he may not want to do an academic route but he should achieve the best he can so as not to close any doors. Admittedly my husband has more influence on him than me, is there anyone with a bit more sway that could tap away?

Oh guess what considering uni now …

Thank you @Velvetbee it's encouraging to hear that your son eventually applied himself and is doing well!

@thismummydrinksgin yes we are going to keep doing this and hopefully it will sink in. No-one other than me and DH who can sway her but we'll keep trying.

You can lead a horse to water ....

GCSEs are a stepping stone onto other things. Getting a clutch of 5s (and she might well apply herself more in Year 11) is perfectly respectable and gives her options.
My experience with a similarly uninterested DS is all you can do is encourage, provide space and all the materials they need, support as wanted etc. Ultimately if they don't want to work, you cannot make them.

DS got middling GCSEs and is now doing very well on an apprenticeship - he's applying himself because it's something he wants to do. I think the finding what they want to do is the key point. At the moment your DD must feel that people are telling her she must pass exams and she doesn't really see why.

I'm afraid I resorted to bribery for GCSEs (very much frowned upon on MN).

My DS is very bright but couldn't be bothered - why get a 9 if you can do no work and get a 7?. It's amazing how offering him a fairly small amount of money (for top marks only) focused his mind and encouraged him to actually study!

@redskydelight I think she will end up with a few subjects higher than a 5, but it's the general attitude that I find difficult; similar to @Gumbo she can't really see the point. I have thought about bribery actually, she is very motivated by money!

And yes, if they know what they want to do it must help @redskydelight My DH was one of the fortunate ones and knew from a young age what he wanted to do, what he was good at, and what he needed to achieve to get there. I think we'll have some more conversations about future jobs, paths etc.

Trying not to be envious of parents who have very driven and self motivated kids, and blame myself for the way she is.

I think you need to have a chat to her about the apprenticeship route. Have a google because there are often apprenticeship fairs locally to you which will have stands from the businesses who offer them.

At Dc's school they have a looking at your future day with talks on apprenticeships, jobs, sixth forms, colleges and some stuff on university too. It shows them all the paths they can take that they might not have considered.

I think you need to support her choice but she needs to look at how she will apply and how she will apply for the apprenticeships and what level she would be looking at. Don't let her vague comment mean you don't look into it together. Being year 10 she might not actually know what an apprenticeship entails unless they have had talks at school or she has looked.

Dc's sixth form had links with local businesses and had a person who oversaw all the apprenticeship applications so was incredibly knowledgeable about what was out there and where to look to find them.

Trying not to be envious of parents who have very driven and self motivated kids, and blame myself for the way she is.

I have one of each, which suggests to me, it is nothing to do with parenting and more to do with personality.
Actually the less motivated one is driven too - just not when it came to jumping through the regimented hoops of the UK school education system.

In adulthood, you work hard in order to earn money.

I don’t see why 15 year olds can’t have the same
motivation! If she’s motivated by cash, then pay her to work.

If she's getting 5s and 6s in Y10 mocks then I think you may be surprised next year. They seem to grow up a lot.

Year 11 is so different in terms of the work schools do with them.

DD (bright but very SEN) managed to fail ALL her November mocks. Panicked meetings with school, a couple of key tutors put in place and she passed ALL her March mocks, and so far actual exams have gone better than hoped in everything.

You only need 5 GCSEs including English and Maths to progress. I know people at Oxford with 6 in total. There are many routes in life.

ETA: I am very onboard with bribery. DD has various goals and rewards in place.

It sounds like your DD has low self-esteem and is underperforming. These are common features of ADHD. Obviously there is far more to it than that. Perhaps look into it? Maybe get her to try some online screeners. My DD has just been diagnosed. I knew she had a problem all through secondary but I didn't know what it was. When she started uni, it was obvious it was ADHD. We also discovered she was dyslexic at around the same time.

Although beware, her school had already run screeners on her for ADHD and various other conditions such as OCD and all came up negative, so I was thrown off the scent.

Have you looked into apprenticeships with her? Round here the decent (better paid) ones require good grades so she may be surprised. They're also very competitive to get onto in a lot of areas. It might be worth starting to look online at actual apprenticeships offered locally, then work backwards to now and see what she needs to get. I guarantee a lot of her knowledge will be hearsay rather than actual research.

Some kids find education boring and are much more suited to an apprenticeship where qualifications can be obtained while working. This route is just as valid as university. Get her some quality careers advice so she knows her options.

I would agree with @redskydelight that helping your DD to explore what she might enjoy in the future (and so be motivated to work towards) is the key. I did this on two ways with mine.

Firstly, took them to career and uni fairs (in Y10, so similar age) so they got a sense of what is out there. I put no pressure on them, not did I try to steer them towards 'parent approved' options. They felt they were in the driving seat.

Secondly, encouraged them to do some volunteering so they stretched themselves a little and in a setting that (unlike school or teenage socialising) was not student-centric. That helped build self-confidence and self-awareness.

Mine were self-motivated types but not that interested in academics for its own sake. The above approach helped them to see GCSE and A level success as a transient means to an end.

I think you are viewing this from your own lense - firstly that you were studious and did well academically and secondly that you think grades are important. I think you need to try to identify what makes DD unmotivated.

Is it that she is scared of failing (it's easy to refuse to do something than try and not do well) and letting you down/failing to meet your expectations?

Is it that she finds the subjects uninteresting? If so, can you help supplement what's done in school to fire up her interest beyond the narrow curriculum?

Is it that she finds "learning to pass exams" pointless - which would align with her feeling that she wants to move onto an apprenticeship? So it's not that she is unmotivated, just that she is not motivated to study what she's told to?

I had a really interesting conversation with my DS recently. DS is 21, so GCSEs are well behind him and for context he got a 3 in English Lit, despite being a bright child that loved reading. DS said he rushed through the course book (often reading others by the same author or other linked books) but then was bored when they spent the whole of the term analysing it line by line. He also had lots of opinions about the book, but at GCSE stage you are not allowed to have opinions of your own, you have to stick to the "accepted" opinions and write them down on paper in an accepted format. DS wasn't prepared to do all this. An apprenticeship has suited him because he can now see the point of his study (even if in some cases it's just to let him progress to the next thing - he can see the direct link), and he has opportunities to do things that he finds more interesting and motivating. It's really hard at 15 to see that learning to pass exams (which bluntly, is a lot what GCSE is) has a point, if you are not intrinsically interested in them.

GCSEs are a stepping stone and in that respect they are important. It’s about her understanding that getting herself into the best position possible will give her the most options. She doesn’t want to look back and realise that if she’d done a little bit more work she could have got the grades she needed to do what she now wants.

I would be having a look at what is generally needed for an apprenticeship and college courses. At some point soon she’ll need to decide next steps.

In any event maximising English and maths grades is a must. Build her confidence etc. I agree with others about the job, if she gets a ‘dead end’ job she’ll soon realise that unless she puts the work in that’s where she’ll end up and it’ll be a waste.

Thank you so much for all the advice and sharing of experiences, it's really so helpful, and kind of you all to take the time.

She definitely has some self esteem / confidence issues, and I have considered potential neurodivergence. In any case, I will continue to be as supportive as possible - help to build her self worth etc, and provide the space at home for no pressure conversations, help her explore future options, and work on my own issue with looking through my lens!

This is such a tricky time of life!