US family entering year 4 and year 6

[usa2ukay]

Hello! I've tried reading through a bunch, apologize if this is a repeat- but I am confused about how children enter the UK school system. We are considering a move in the coming months. My oldest would be entering year 6 (5th grade in the US) next year, and has significant trouble with math. Reading through threads about 11+ exams etc, it almost feels like there is no option for kids who don't excel academically? I would prefer not to pay American school tuition if at all possible. Are there any options that are both non-selective and supportive of an education beyond 11 years of age? (Sorry this is not meant to be sarcastic, a bit lost with this!) We would be moving for a job in Hammersmith- we are really open to anywhere, have been looking around Surrey mostly because we would like to have access to a yard/green space wherever we are (have large dogs).

The state schools educate 90 per cent of UK kids and are free. It's variable how good they are but on a rough average primary schools tend to be very good and secondaries variable. Some are great and some are OK but have some issues. Ofsted produces reports on state schools so you can see how highly regarded they are scored as. Grammar schools are only in some areas - they are state selective schools and select using the 11plus. Some private schools though also use the 11plus to select kids. Any idea your ideal /max length commute to Hammersmith? Do you want somewhere more urban or more rural?

State (free government) schools go up to age 18 then you go to university if you want. You have to pay tuition fees for uni but it's max 9thousand pounds a year so not as pricey as USA.

If you look on Rightmove at a house you like the look of it has a link to the nearest state schools and you can look up their ofsted reports

I would do up to an hour or hour and a half commute (only have to go in twice a week and will be traveling a lot)- and super happy with state schools if we can find ones that have space. Our girls are in public school in the US (we were in California until 2 years ago, now in DC). I would prefer somewhat more rural if not too far out. Thank you for specifying re Grammar schools vs otherwise, that is helpful- I think that sounds somewhat like Charter schools for us in the US.

You’re allowing yourself a long commute so that gives you lots of options school-wise, especially in the Home Counties. I would strongly advise visiting the schools, including the secondary ones - depending on your school in the US I suspect a super strict academy, for instance, might be a bit of a shock to the system! For your year 6 child it’s really more important that you’re in catchment for the secondary option you like as they move at age 11. The only other thing I would say - and I don’t mean this in a rude way - is US students are on average about 2 years behind the UK academically. If your son is already struggling with Maths this could translate to an even bigger gap. It might be worth you temporarily employing a private tutor in Maths just to try and close the gap a bit and build his confidence.

Plus rent and living expenses

There aren't many 11+ areas in the uk so just make sure you choose an area to live where there aren't any grammar schools. In non-grammar areas all comprehensive schools will have a huge range of different academic abilities and will have appropriate lessons both for those who are struggling and those who are soaring.

You must make sure that you are established in your new address before the October of year 6 as this address will be used to determine eligibility for secondary schools for year 7. Choose your address carefully - more affordable homes may be more affordable because their location means your child will only be eligible for a terrible school. The same size house in the catchment area for a great school might be £200,000 to £300,000 more expensive. So check out the nearest secondary schools and understand their admissions criteria before committing. Don't judge a school on its raw results - look at the "progress 8" figure which is the best measure for whether a school will do better than average at nurturing the potential of a child whatever their academic status. Find schools that have a strong progress8 score and get a house that is unequivocally certain to make your child eligible for this school.

Most state secondaries are not selective (so comprehensive, not grammar) but applications are made in October of y6, and where you live is important. If you’re going to move, you will need to get your skates on to be in place and ready to make a secondary school application in the normal admission round this October.

Some state schools are amazing. There’s a government website, something like compare-school-data.gov.uk, that ranks them all according to Government benchmarks.

Surrey is a grammar area to be fair - are you looking at free/state or private education.

Private for example in Surrey does have quite a few non academic options (helped by the 11+) as well as good state options

When exactly is his birthday? If he still 9 now, schools might be happy with him going into Yr5 in September not Yr6 for example.

Surrey is not mostly a grammar area, apart from a few super selective schools on the London border, such as Tiffin’s, which are massively competitive to get in to. Most state secondary schools in Surrey are comprehensive and non selective. OP, you might want to be aware that in the U.K. the term “public school “ means the most expensive and elite private schools, mostly for boys. What’s called a public school in the US is called a state school in the U.K., and as a previous poster said most children in the U.K. attend state schools.

I noticed you’ve got your sense of our school system from reading threads on here. I just wanted to reassure you that MN is not really representative of the wider education system. It has a disproportionate amount of discussion of private and highly selective schools but the majority of us are not using those schools. Many children move from primary to secondary with no academic testing (SATS in year 6 have no bearing in our cases) and, as you’ve already heard, as long as you are not in one of the grammar areas, this is not something to worry about at all.

Good luck with the move. I was brought up in Guildford (a comuter town to London) and there are good, non selective secondary schools.

Now I've moved to grammar area and it feels very alien to have primary aged children, knowing they'll have an important, stressful exam age 10 if we don't move! Colleges with older children talk so much about the 11+ and I didn't even know it was a thing still until I was an adult.

The best one at the time changes every few years, so I can't be specific. I would say my my favourite years at school was year 5 and year 8, so I would look into what pp said about going into year 5.... allthough we moved when my sister was in yesterday year 5 and she didn't make new friends until starting secondary in year 7, so I don't know what's best.

No, charter schools are not the same thing as grammar schools. Grammar schools are selective schools that take a certain percentage of students based off a test. Otherwise, grammar schools are run exactly like the other schools (called comprehensive schools) with the same funding, etc. There are also academies, which are run a bit differently -- those are closer to charter schools, but still much much more run like regular schools than charter schools in the US and most don't have tests. And remember that no matter what kind of school your kid goes to, everyone in the UK takes exactly the same tests at the end (GCSE, A-Levels) which are set by the government.

I think you're getting thrown off by mumsnet. Just as in the US, most kids in the UK just go to their ordinary (comprehensive) school, and like in the US, some are better than others. Depending on where you live, the comprehensive schools may not be as good because the grammar schools might skim the "best" students from the top, but even that's not always true. If you find a place you like, that is not in an area with a lot of grammar schools, and read the Ofsted reports of the schools near where you want to live (reports are flawed, but still pretty useful), you'll likely find a school that works. If not, just as in the US, find another place to live closer to a school that does.

IMO schools are less uneven in the UK than in the US because the funding is not based on property taxes. Moving to a wealthier area may mean a different kind of of parent group, maybe more money from the PTA, etc. but it doesn't mean the school itself has more money.

So the UK definitely has schools that "both non-selective and supportive of an education beyond 11 years of age." Many (most?) of them are just this! But just like in the US, you'll have to do your research and plan where you live wisely.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england

Useful website for you.
If you get a rough idea where you want to live, you can use this to compare schools on that area. The three things to look at to start with are Ofsted, Attainment and Progress. Combined they will give around idea about how a school is doing.

You will be look at both Primary and Secondary. If you find some Secondarys you like, look at the admissions criteria... its often basically LAC, siblings, distance but some areas have variations like feeder schools and priority admissions Areas. You may also see banding tests.

For the Primary schools... its what schools have places available once you have an address. This might not be the same school for both children.

And banding tests are not tests of achievement. They're used to admit a proportion of children across the ability bands so it doesn't matter what you get in them.

Hammersmith is not the easiest of places to commute to from 'outer' Surrey (some parts of Surrey are on the underground network) - driving to the office is probably a non-starter in London.

What month does your older girl turn 11?

In terms of uni depending you might pay foreign student fees which could be a lot.

I think usa is behind in maths but they do make up ground quickly later on.
Have a look at ks2 sats papers as thats where kids are at end y6.
If joining for y6 he may catch up a lot then.

As others have said with going into year six you will want to live in catchment for a decent state comprehensive for year 7 even if you end up considering the private route. Trying for grammars without tutoring would be perhaps worth a shot but a bit of gamble. Most of us don’t have the grammar anyway

the other thing to consider is that in the spring of year 6 primary school kids do sats tests. These really aren’t important in the grand scheme of things but if your DS is struggling with maths that will be an additional thing to deal with once you’re here (they test maths and English). Some secondary take notice of the scores, most will make a note but broadly ignore. You might find that some primaries take them fair too seriously though as the scores are important to them

Most schools do not have 11+ My dc did not sit any exams for their state schools as there were none in our county. Kent is an area to avoid for sure as all kids sit the exam

This is for private schools though, which is not what the OP is interested in.

I also agree this forum is not representative of average UK schooling. This forum attracts the small number of parents interested in selective grammar schooling and expensive private schools as that is a complicated decision to make. We are in a grammar area but only 5% of kids go to grammar school; 95% just go to the local comprehensive school with the better ones being in the wealthier areas. Most areas in the UK have no grammar schools but there are grammars in and around London especially. A lot of schools have flashy videos and virtual tours on their websites and a good school would be happy to talk to you on the phone.

If your son's birthday is May to August you could ask for him to go into year 5 as we have a right to request Summer born children are deferred to the year below when they enter school.