Making appeal cause for st .Paul’s Catholic College sunbury .

[kinkylasmile]

I am preparing for my son’s secondary school appeal next week ,I had not submitted supporting documents when I made his school application as I didn’t know I had to (new to the process) I sent his Catholic practice plus Catholic baptism certificate with application but didn’t include the supporting documentation started below . He is currently placed no 19 on the waiting list as school was oversubscribed this year and distance from school is reason for not getting a place.He was offered a school which is now deemed Inadequate in all areas by OFSTED.I have supported my appeal with reports from:
-CAMHS diagnosing him with Emotional needs which state his struggle with managing change and specifically mention how this can provoke stressed and anxious specifically transitioning to secondary school.
-Assessment diagnosis for Tourette syndrome (TICS) which he is since started management session to help manage his tics (the disability Causes him to be very impulsive .ie .talk of killing himself at school due to hearing negative talk from close friend complaining about not liking his home life and expressing his intention of dieing this cause my son to feel overwhelmed and anxious and made him want to do the same .He is prone to been bullied due to his disability (TICS), He takes flight when overwhelmed and anxious and needs adult support.
-Sen report from school stating his needs (SEMH)
I have a fair idea how to word my case to the appeal panel but i would really appreciate if i can get further help from anyone who has experience with secondary school appeals or any offer of advice .Also ,given this reasons above would you say I have a strong case as school only starts they lack space for an additional student and how it will affect the learning of other students .
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks

Last things first - at this stage, the school is making a case to the independent appeal panel as to why, with ot already being at PAN (or above) for the relevant year group, it cannot admit any further pupil(s). There should be nothing personal regarding your own (or any other appellant’s) DC, other than confirmation as to why your DS was not ranked within the number who could not be offered a place when all applicants were ranked. I note that you say you have been told 'distance', so I would assume that this area is overwhelmed with boys of the RC faith? It's somewhat different where I am, where the second nearest Catholic comprehensive usually goes down to 'all other applicants' albeit occasionally only 'with a sibling at the school).

The 'medical' supporting evidence for why you want a place at the school would only have been relevant if the school actually has a relevant oversubscription criterion and

1. whoever was responsible for scrutinising the evidence deemed it to be strong enough for your DS to be ranked under that criterion and
2. that a ranking under that criterion wod have been high enough for a place to be offered.

However, even if the school has no 'medical / social need' oversubscription criterion, if your DS's needs in this area are the reason why you believe that this is the best school for him, then the documentation should certainly be submitted to the clerk to the appeal panel as part of your case. You should have been given a deadline for doing this to guarantee that the panel will consider it - please don't just wave it under their noses on the day of the appeal, as the Chair can refuse to accept paperwork at that stage.

It will help your case if the professionals involved have stated that in their own opinion, based on their knowledge of your DS, this school is best placed to meet his needs, and why. Not just 'Mum tells me that...'

What conversations have you, or the SENDCo at your DS's primary school had with each of the schools concerned about how they provide support for pupils flagged up.as potenthaving more problems than the average with the transition from primary to secondary?

Many thanks for your reply @MarchingFrogs
I believe if I had included this supporting documentation when making the initial application he would have got a place as he is on his school’s sen register along with the paperwork from CAMHs and also his recent diagnosis. I already sent all supporting documentation with my appeal to the school and LA for the appeal panel to have and go through well in advance.I had sent all paperwork to his school of choice as the Senco and governor had requested hard copies after explaining to them i didn’t include this with my initial school application and wanted to alert them of these issues and for my son to be reconsidered for admission I had been dealing with the school while I made my appeal .My son was diagnosed with TICS most recently before the initial application process in oct hence why I am pushing now for him to get his chosen school as the school is best with Sen and offers a holistic way to teaching which has worked for my son in his previous Catholic primary school. The school the LA offered me is been deem Inadequate in all area including Sen support the ofsted report neglected of school children especially Sen children who are vulnerable and not providing a good education/environment for students to access learning. When I choose the school as his third choice it was rated good it’s since been deemed inadequate in this few months . I rejected the school so senco are waiting for outcome to best support son’s transitioning . I stated I will home school him if he doesn’t get the place as that’s the only option as the LA’s offered school will cause more damage than good for my son .

Okay, so looking at the school's admissions policy, it does have an oversubscription criterion 'Baptised Carholic with exceptional medical or social needs' and since this is the second criterion after 'Baptised Catholic LAC / PLAC', if you had submitted the relevant supporting documents and on the strength of these, your DS had been ranked under this criterion rather than a lower one, he would have got a place. It doesn't mean that the school was wrong not to offer a place on March, 3rd, though, as they couldn't rank on something they didn't know about, but now that the initial offer of places has been made, if the school now accepts that the evidence submitted places him under this criterion, this should improve his ranking on the waiting list (much like the change of circumstance of e.g. a belatedly supplied certificate of Catholic practice, or a change of address to somewhere nearer the school would).

Even if the school still won't rank him under that criterion, though, it doesn't mean that the appeal panel will be swayed by that decision.

Again ,Many thanks for all your advice I will be speaking to our GP on Tuesday to get a letter to back my appeal and probably speak to the TICS facilitator to ask for a support letter. My LA has agreed to assess him for a EHC they said he did require social needs as part of EHCP but I disagree on stating safeguarding grounds meeting has been set for this Thursday to discuss fingers crossed the process is quick and he is offered a EHCP on time to put measures in place to give a option of choice of a great school that can support him .
Again ,Thank you for all your positive input. 😊

You need to address why this specific school is best to handle his difficulties, ideally with HCP giving their opinion in support. A panel may well take the view that all schools are equipped to support year 7 transition and SEND. Are there any particular clubs or activities which would engage him?

@LIZSYes their physics lab is state of the act and will provide the adequate resources for him as he wants to be a physicist I have backed this with his school report his performance in Maths and Science is greater depth (Excellent) this school will better suit him to assess his learning and achievement that also this is the only school in our area that has a holistic approach to learning which my son needs the school’s ethos and Sen provision plus trained staff who understand Sen and can better understand his needs . The school offered by LA is inadequate and lack trained teachers/Stuff to support Sen students it’s struggling at the moment with no consistent stuff and Pupils with SEND do not receive a high-quality education. Teachers and support staff are not consistently knowledgeable about the individual needs of pupils with Sen .
copied this from Ofsted regarding Sch offered (Sunbury Manor )

• The use of prejudicial language has become normalised by pupils at the school.
• When incidents are reported, leaders do not consistently take action to stop this behaviour continuing. This has allowed a culture of racist and homophobic
• 'banter' to develop. The school should ensure that there are high expectations of the way pupils treat each other and that these are understood by all. They must make sure that their behaviour policy is applied consistently and that prejudicial language is not tolerated.

The arrangements for safeguarding are not effective. The school lacks the required capacity to carry out their safeguarding duties effectively. Too many pupils are frequently absent from school and leaders do not consistently make sure that these pupils are safe. This includes some pupils who are vulnerable, for example because they require the involvement of children's social care. There is a lack of oversight of pupils on reduced timetables. The whereabouts of these pupils is sometimes unknown. There is a lack of connectivity between different systems in school. Information about safeguarding and behaviour are not joined up, which has resulted in instances where patterns of concern have been missed. Weaknesses in safeguarding have not been identified prior to this inspection, including through the work of trustees. My sons pattern of taking flight when overwhelmed and anxious will be ignored and if this should happen in this school he will be a missing child I can’t afford that to happen.

@LIZSAdding to the cultural in the school regarding racism my child is mixed race and has never encountered any form of racism I am very worried after reading all this hence the reason I rejected the place.The school was deem inadequate after school application had been made .

You can’t use negative arguments about the allocated school though. Some kids have to attend that school.

It’s not about the school you have been allocated and it’s performance.
It’s about why you need the other school in particular.

I was on a panel for a Catholic primary, I think you have a good case. There is flexibility to go above PAN. We would have been sympathetic to your case. Good luck

@kinkylasmile , are you in a primary in the same MAT as St Paul's? It won't
make a difference to your appeal though.
Sunbury Manor isn't a bad school, if you aren't Catholic and can't get into Bishop Wand (its C of E) it's an ok option.

@LIZSI do not intend to it’s only for the purpose of this thread for you to have an idea of why I think the first choice school is well suited. I will refine from bringing up the offered school unless I am asked. Many thanks for your helpful response.

@HollyhedgeAh ! Many thanks for this ….there are other factors which I have refused to include.we have lost my partner and I have been dealing with all this in addition to son’s Sen issues the bereavement caused him a lot of trauma but I refuse to include that as I don’t want to veer from the main reason for a place in that school which I know can support his needs . Hearing this has made my month it’s been a difficult couple of months. Thank you so much for your kind words.

@poppybuttonswe moved from whitton where my son was in a Catholic primary and was placed on waiting list here in ashford the two years he was was out of a catholic school he regressed greatly hence why I am so eager to get him back into a familiar place/school where he can assess his learning I had picked Bishops one as his second choice he is placed no 10 but as the waiting list has a lot of movement I am yet to receive any information regarding where he is placed now .I have placed an appeal bishop Wand school as well .
. Many thanks for your support.

Best of luck for both appeals but other wise take Sunbury Manor and keep on the WL for the other 2.

@100PercentFaithfulYes , I only thought to highlight it just to give a picture of why I do not think it is a good fit for my son . Many thanks for outlining this .

@poppybuttonsMany thanks ☺️

Quite a lot of your post is based on the fact that the offered school is inadequate in lots of areas. Surely all schools are expected to educate children who are anxious and have tics. The desired school having nicer labs and higher ratings from ofsted are not likely to be good arguments. Otherwise everyone whose child liked science or had anxiety or send needs would believe they should be admitted to the desired school.

@MissJeanBrodiesmother
All I know is the appeal is a chance for me to present the evidence I did not include in the original school application process.I am a mum of a child who has a disability if you know extensively about Tourette syndrome and SEMH and you are confident all schools know how to educate children who have it that your opinion.I know the impact and difficulties my son is facing even at his present school as teachers and stuff do not have extensive knowledge about it and put it to behaviour .This particular school has a holistic approach to learning which is better suited for my son .He thrives in his previous school which offered the same style approach to learning and that is what my son needs . As a mum it’s my job to undo my mistakes and exhaust all avenues I can to make sure my child gets the best environment to assess his learning.What everyone else believes or doesn’t believe is none of my business.I am an advocate for my son .I truly have no idea what your response is meant to serve.

Oh dear. I was trying to help you see that the panel might see things differently. It can then help you to prepare your arguments and tailor them accordingly. If you just want people to say yes your case is brilliant and you will definitely win your appeal then fine. The fact is not everyone does win their appeal and many think they have brilliant cases.

@MissJeanBrodiesmother
I do appreciate every help I have received so far ..I did say that i was naive regarding the process and did not include any supporting documentation with his initial application. Every child who has TICS does not experience the same symptoms. A child who has such disability needs to be in a very secure and accepting environment to help them to manage it which this school provides.The least I can do now is make my appeal and put this across to the panel and let them decide as I did not provide the LA all the documents required at the time hence they placed base on what they have .I have asked for help but your response didn’t offer me any pointers or how to present it to have a better chance of arguing my case infront of the panel .I do not want people to agree with me I just needed some help as to how to present these factors which to me are serious reasons and fears regarding my child moving up to y7. I will regret not trying.I apologise for my response to your input .Many thanks for your input and advice.

For other posters, the 3 schools are next to each other in Sunbury. St Paul's is Catholic and highly sought after, Bishop Wand is C of E and has a church attendance criteria in admissions, it's also highly regarded. Everyone else who is non religious, lives too far away etc goes to Sunbury Manor, it has recently had a terrible Ofsted, it's a SAT, it has a new head and hopefully lots of resources are being directed its way. You can imagine how many parents are appealing when they were allocated Sunbury Manor.

The panel will not see your threat to “home school if he does not get the place “ as a compelling reason to offer a place, you have already turned down the place you were offered, so technically homeschooling is your only current option if you don’t win the appeal.

Bad mouthing the offered school is another poor strategy, you don’t know what connections the panel members have to the offered school, and your knowledge is built on rumour and an OFSTED report , not direct experience.

You need to be more proactive in obtaining a school place, you might well lose the appeal so what other schools have you investigated, are you on their waiting lists?

What do you mean by "a holistic approach to schooling"? Can you explain what you mean by this and why you think it would help your son?

@SlagPit
” A holistic approach to learning “ As I explained above he had benefited from this style of learning in his previous Catholic primary sch . Working on a child’s entire body his physical , emotional ,moral ,psychological and spiritual attributes to help the child assess his learning and not only focusing on his limitations basically not expecting a regiment style but being open minded and approach each child personal and most suited learning style .