Primary and Secondary schools in Islington and Hackney

[ginaagretti]

I currently live in Islington, London with DH and DS (who is 2). We need to move to a bigger place as we have very little space, and I'm not sure whether to stay near where I live now or move to Hackney. I want to make one move, and stay in the same place for DS' primary and secondary school. Moving is such a hassle, and stamp duty so expensive, that I don't want to have to do it again. However, I'm worried about choosing the right area to be in for schools, especially secondary schools.

Where I live now, is within 0.1 miles of an OFSTED 'outstanding' primary and secondary school, St Mary Magdalene Academy (which seems a nice school and has excellent exam results). We can buy a bigger flat or a tiny house here, not have much space, but be definitely within the catchment for this school. Or, we could move to Hackney, where our budget will stretch (marginally) further, and could get a small house with garden. Bonuses of this are more access to green space, and closer to lovely and helpful grandparents, and lots of other friends with young kids in the area. Less likely to be close to 'outstanding' secondary school with excellent exam results, but lots of 'outstanding' primaries near where we are looking, and lots of 'good' secondaries eg Bridge Academy, Haggerston, and possibly would be in catchment for Mossbourne community academy (outstanding but v strict).

Would love some advice from older, more experienced parents, and Hackney and Islington parents if possible. I know DS is only 2, but I come from an immigrant family with a big emphasis on education, and I feel I want to provide this for DS, and also don't want to have to move again. I also appreciate things can change massively with schools in 8 - 9 years time also, do good/outstanding schools tend to stay that way? Is it all just too far away to try and predict/make decisions on this basis? Any advice much appreciated.

Hmmmm OP I am not an expert by any means as I am just at the stage of looking at secondary schools for my eldest but Mary Mags is generally considered the school of choice for many in Islington, especially boys. Aside from the grammars / quasi grammars which are a long shot unless your child is dedicated, very bright and rarely ill or prone to nerves, it’s the state secondary many want. However your child is only 2 so things can change.

Is it worth clinging on where you are until DS gets into Mary Mags primary, as children from there automatically get a place in the senior school (you’d need to double check this is still the case if you move away)? Islington and Hackney have many excellent primaries and you would be able to get into one of those if you move, but the secondary stage is more difficult, especially with boys (girls have a few more options) so you may regret giving up the chance of a Mary Mags place.

Perhaps just focus on a nice primary with engaged parents. Heads and teachers come and go, so generally the type of parents will determine the quality of the primary. Secondary is just too far off, and without knowledge of your child's interests and abilities choosing one now seems a bit of a blind punt. You and dad living happily in a place you enjoy will have a far greater impact on your child's wellbeing than any school choices you make now.

I'd stay in your current location if you're in catchment for SMM. While it's still a long way off, you also said you don't want to have to move a second time, and it might be tricky to find another secondary school in either Islington or Hackney that you'd be happy with. Once your DS starts school, you will meet more families and make more local friends.

Check whether getting into the primary gives you an automatic place for the secondary. If so you only need to hold out a couple of years to be able to move and still have SMMA as an option for secondary, if it stays desirable. Be aware that SMMA is now very much on the radar of Hackney parents too - so if you move now you may need to spend a later year hearing Hackney parents talking non-stop about how much they'd like it! On Mossbourne, I think you're right that, given the current enquiry into their practices, how it will change on future is very much up-in-the-air. I would have thought that at the very least they'll be forced to scrap the worst bits. It can be nail biting for parents though trying to evaluate whether their children are surviving it or not really.

This is the right answer, I'd say. Get your kid into reception at the primary school, double check the automatic entry to SMMA secondary still applies if you move, and THEN move. Not so far that the commute to school is awful, but enough to get out of the raised prices of being in the catchment area.

Your pros to being in Hackney though are strong pros though (esp grandparents) and people do generally end up at secondary schools they like. It just depends on how risk-averse you are.

As regards secondary which of course is a long way off I would rate SMMA a good way above the Hackney schools you mention. It's a great option to have.

I agree. It was definitely our first choice when we toured the schools, although living in N16, we didn't get in.

Mossbourne is currently under investigation after Hackney council received more than 300 separate complaints about it. These related to various schools in its MAT, but mainly the Victoria park academy. So that's worth keeping an eye on.

Another thing - tne reason prices are cheaper in Hackney is the transport links are not so good. You must be quite close to Highbury and Islington tube, OP, which is a great location. So you'll lose that if you move further out.

I live in Hackney, with older pre teen children. At their primary school lots of children go on to Bridge and Haggerston for secondary.

Some children, as in maybe 2 or 3 each year get into SMMA via the Aptitude Test, so I know that it is possible to go there from Hackney, ie the door isn't completely closed but it depends on your DS's ability later on!

Some children also get into Mossbourne, but that is usually via the sibling priority. You should be aware that moving close to Mossbourne doesn't necessarily get your child in, they operate a lottery system within a inner, middle and outer catchment. It is also the most oversubscribed school in the borough (1300 applicants for 200 places). I think the only way to guarantee entry to Mossbourne is via one of their academy primary schools (you can find this information on their website) so if you are thinking of moving to Hackney then maybe have a look at those primary schools?

Hackney is a great place to bring up kids. Personally I think transport is pretty good and certainly not an issue for anyone. Hackney secondary schools do really well for most children. Anecdotally I hear positive things about all the schools mentioned above, I know about the investigations at Mossbourne Victoria Park, but the parents and the children I know who attend Mossbourne are happy and supportive of the school (they also understand that an investigation is necessary).

Given your DS is 2, I'd say make the move to Hackney but I'm very biased. A lot can change over the next 8 years so you have time to look around, Possibly too soon, but if you are really interested then you could even go and look around the schools in the september secondary open days...

Just for full disclosure, I have daughters, with one at Clapton Girls which is working out very well and happily the youngest will get in on sibling policy.

Side note - you’d need to check that it’s still in the SMM catchment (for secondary - do t think it is for primary) but the area around Conistone way can be very good value, space wise and is quiet and safe, according to a friend who lives there…

Can confirm that being at the Primary does give you an automatic place at the Secondary school at the moment and am not aware of any plans to change this.

I would take the advice that others have given you - if you can stay all the way through at the primary, start there and then move to Hackney. Hackney is a fantastic place to raise children. But it doesn’t have a better - or even equivalent - secondary school to SMMA. And children from Hackney schools apply in their 100s (or more!) for the 20 governor places at SMMA secondary.

I've lived in Hackney and Islington and I'd agree that SMMA is the best option for secondary overall (not focusing purely on academics). Personally I'm not a fan of the approach in most Hackney academies and I'm glad some of it is being scrutinised now - you need to look into that side of things in detail and not look just at the academic results.

We ended up moving away from both areas and my dcs are in private preps now - SMMA gets a good number of applicants from the local preps, some of them for exam practice but more families will be seriously considering taking a place due to the VAT changes. The academic standard in good state secondaries like SMMA which take a proportion from private primaries will rise as more of those families opt for state secondaries (and it will be harder for state applicants to get in through a selective place from outside the catchment).

It's often claimed that school reputations change so there's no point in thinking about secondary schools when dcs are so young. But ime there are many London schools which hold on to good repuations, for decades, especially if they have a strong middle class cohort, which SMMA does.

That area is also a great place to raise dcs - excellent transport to explore all over London (which Hackney doesn't have), the farm, library, classes and events at Christ Church and St Mary's, Highbury Fields, Little Angel, Sobell. We didn't live exactly locally (an Overground ride away) but we know it well because all the facilities made it worth the trip!

Of course you can explore all over London from Hackney. Loads of kid friendly events, great libraries, a City Farm, beautiful parks and The Marshes, new skating rink and leisure centre, etc etc.

I moved from Islington to Hackney as Hackney is a much better place to bring up children in my opinion. Far more green spaces and if you live in the clissold park side of the borough you're not far from a number of tube stations and the buses are great.

My kids have been through primary and secondary in hackney and I think the schools and the choice was very good.

I found it pretty hard to get out of Stoke Newington when my DCs were pushchair age. Sometimes I would try to get into town, but be defeated by TFL and have to turn around and stay local. It wasn't fun! We did get the bus to Islington quite often, though.

Forget the Outstanding thing. I've had my kids at Good and Outstanding schools and they're simply no true indicator of how your kid will like it or you will feel. They're often simply a metric for freaking parents out or being competitive about having got a place there. There are so many brilliant schools in Islington and Hackney, be they ranked good or Outstanding. Go to schools and see if you like them. I know people that have kids at Mary Mags and like it and others that don't and left. We have to stop this prejudicial approach to school attendance. A child's happiness and progress in school comes down to so much more. They need a supporting environment and friends/community to thrive, not pressure and sacrifice.

Find a place to live that makes you happy, because your child will be happier if you're happy. Your say your child is 2, to stay in what you feel is not how you want to live for a huge portion of their childhood for the school place that you think now is what they want is such a lot of pressure on them and you as well. Who knows what Mary Mags will be like then. They'll likely have a change of head in that time and with that can come flux. I know people that literally moved to Stokie to get into Stoke Newington School, so they obviously like it. I know people who's kids go to the oft spoken of horridly Highbury Grove, and they absolutely love it.

At such a young age you don't even know yet what type of culture at school they'd do best in. Very strict might help them. Much more free might suit them better.

It's completely understandable being anxious about wanting to make the right decision on these big things but I'm sure whatever choice you make for your child and your family will be the right one for you. Your child's life (and academic achievement) won't be affected anywhere near as much by the school they go to as your loving support through it all.

Personally I’d stay in Islington for now and get him into Mary Mags which is a great school. He can either stay on for senior - or if he is academic or musical he can apply for Dame Alice Owen’s for senior if that appeals. They have to take 20 kids a year who are being educated in Islington - so it makes it a bit easier to get in!

Stay to get into st mags for primary, move after if you need to but that way you've got a good school space secure.

Everyone in Islington is obsessed with Mary Mags. Having said that, as you have a boy it’s the best option. There are more options for girls in the borough.
I knew a lovely family whose son went to Mossbourne and found it horrific. He’s at Mary Mags now and flourishing.

Just want to chime in here and say that our DC went to Mossbourne and was victimised by bullying teachers from day 1 - we pulled him out. I have no idea how this school is allowed to stay open let alone receive outstanding Ofsted marks - something is clearly not right there and I would advise any parents to think of other options in the borough! I think its a case of blind following the blind in allowing children there!