Tiffin girls school

[igglepiggleadventures]

Changed my username so it's not too outing.

Child has a place at Tiffin Girls school that we have not been able to reject yet.
She also has an accepted independent school place - not going to say where but really a top 10 school in the UK. Ranking isn't so important to us but we know she needs to be in an academic environment and stretched.

DH and I always thought she would be better placed in an independent school, she is quite relaxed and needs to be challenged. She is bright and resilient, but not competitive at all and as a summer born still quite immature and needs a nurturing environment. She needs to be told to get things done. At least as parents that's what we thought and why we accepted the senior school of our choice. She has been going to a private school since reception and we have been very happy with all the school had to offer.

However DD is not so excited about the independent school. She wants to go to Tiffin. I think it comes from peer pressure (because everybody thinks it's such a great achievement) and a close friend going too. Also logistically very straightforward to commute, so she doesn't understand why we wouldn't let her go there. I don't think she understands well what differences there could be between a state and an independent school.

School fees have always been a stretch but we still can afford it. The current economic climate does worry me because what if one of us loses a job? There is no inheritance or support we could get from grandparents.

WWYD? I don't want to lose a term's fee so if we change our mind we need to make it now.

But is it that good .. if they get the brightest girls in year 7 (more than any other school) but then isn’t in the top 40 academically in the times list? As the poster says … is the school giving value added?

It may mean that the parents have less money to pay for additional tutoring.It may also mean they are less able to select out the less able kids. I am not saying that all private school pupils have additional tutoring or that all private schools will select out kids, but you should never rely uniquely on league tables.

I am not saying that all private school pupils have additional tutoring or that all private schools will select out kids, but you should never rely uniquely on league tables.

this

I do think there is a worry about it being a state school (despite it being the Harrods of state schools). I think by paying the fees OP can feel like she has done her best and the school has some accountability. I sent my children from a fee paying primary to the local non grammar state schools (we do have a grammar). They are very well adjusted kids. They have a wide circle of friends as their primary cohort go to all sorts of schools. They’ve had great trips. My DS has offers from great unis, the only Oxbridge offer people he knows this year went to his state school. Another friend’s child went to a school his parents chose. It didn’t end well, and is now at the local school (child’s preferred choice).

Be careful with the Times list. Only look at GCSE results for Tiffin. A lot of top girls schools lose some of the very best girld in Sixth Form to co-eds. Quite often they are creamed off by boys grammars going coed in Sixth Form.

Agree not to use league tables on its own. It is a factor, along with university destinations, pastoral care, extra curricular exposures etc

If money isn’t an issue, then surely the top 10 independent school is comparable Tiffin. I don’t think it’s an easy decision. It isn’t clear to be that Tiffin is a no browner like others have said

I think the point is that Tiffin is a no brainer because it is comparable and it is free. And everyone at both schools will be seeking to do their best to create happy, rounded, successful (whatever that means) human beings. And you can never be sure what will suit your child best.

Just to add, if the DD’s preference was the private, and the fees were manageable, and the parents preferred it, I would have suggested that.

I'm taking in all the feedback, thank you. Apologies if my comment about focus on academics offended anyone - for me it's one observation from what's been discussed above. Not many really suggested anything extra curricular, but many commenting on rankings or how academic it is or how difficult it is to get into..

So Tiffin is great academically, and it will be much easier to move to an independent school if it doesn't work out (than vice versa). Being local will have a positive impact on friendships. Potential resentment if DD doesn't like the independent school. These are great consideration points for me.

Think I wanted to hear about provisions outside of academics in these great grammar schools.. what can I expect to be offered? Opportunities for sports matches. how good are the school orchestras/ensembles and how often they play together.. how much opportunity for drama and to be on stage (or work behind the stage).. are there team building trips beg of year 7.. do they have an actual MFL speaker who teaches them the language.. do they have sufficient opportunities for lab work in science.. any debating workshops or lessons.. what about textiles.. design.. technology.. or food tech.. just to name a few from my narrow experience. I wanted to get some assurance that Tiffin Girls offer things like that too.. at a decent level at least if not the same as fee-paying schools.

And don't get me wrong I really want to switch my mind and choose Tiffin and get it done with, but really struggling to find good reasons to justify that decision. DD wanting to go there is so big I need to persuade myself.

This.

I am always very suspicious of private schools with very strong results ever since the son of family friends of ours was asked to leave his “top private school” at the Easter of his Upper Sixth Year. He had to take his A levels as some kind of external candidate at the local college.

On one level - I have some sympathy - he was a total slacker who did no work and ended up with a C and 2 Ds when he had the ability to get so much higher.

On the other hand - he had been at the school and its associated prep since he was 3 years old so maybe the school had a teeny tiny bit of responsibility for his lack of motivation.

School was then in the local papers for their “best ever results”.

You have made your decision. My DD’s super selective grammar had all of those things but it is disingenuous to ask if a state school with much less funding will have them to the same level because they clearly won’t. You know that already. But did the girls have the opportunity to take part in those activities to an equally high level? Of course they did, but some of it was outside school - because the parents wanted the best for their kids and worked to give them those opportunities.

You know you want private because you think it is best, so let the Tiffin place go and tell your DD.

One thing maybe worth considering for further down the line - lots of university outreach opportunities etc that are offered to year 12s, and can be really useful for boosting knowledge and experience, are limited to state school applicants. So there’s a chunk of super-curricular stuff that would be more accessible if she goes to a state grammar.

I heard TGS sixth form also asks girls to leave if they don't meet some standards, from local mums with older children. Which was not what I was expecting from a state school, but I don't even know if that's true.

@bettyjane thanks for another excellent point. Also I did notice a LOT of Tiffin girls go to study medicine and good universities. Very impressive destinations overall.

I’m always slightly suspicious of stories like this from friends. Did they really ask him to leave in his U6 year solely for low results or was there something else that they don’t want to admit to? I wouldn’t just take the parents word for this, they really want to save face and not admit it was for drugs/ misbehaving.

Even in independent schools there are processes to follow asking someone to leave.

I would say the main thing is that if she/you don’t like Tiffin given I get the impression it isn’t one of the really competitive independent ones (Putney/Wimbledon) then you should be able to move - perhaps talk to the school I suspect turning down a place for a grammar is a fairly expected and see what the process would be so you have a safety net.

from my grammar (Sutton not tiffin) lots of music opportunities different things and a concert per term. Drama as well lots of co-curricular- it is very important to the parents (live in the heart of Sutton grammar). Not sure on sport DD has never gone near a sports club and only has a vague idea that it exists!

My advice is to give it a go and if it works great if it doesn’t moving to independent won’t be an issue and could even do it at year 9 intake (City of Freemans definitely does a 13+) and then you will know

Have you looked at the website? Been on an open day? Looked at insta. They will shout about these things in there. Those are all offerings even my local school does. Maybe not as fancy and advanced but they do happen. And as for 6 form they will need to meet certain grade requirements in some subjects (like grade 7 for alevel maths etc). As for the year 12 outreach programmes, being from a state school doesn’t just make the grade anymore, parents need to have not gone to uni, FSM etc!

I know someone who this happened to - no idea how common it is.

Any post holder events coming up to ask just questions? Or ask for an adhoc tour? The annual tour is in July which is probably too late

Like all sixth forms offers are conditional every state sixth form has them to do A levels they just vary

so the lowest in our area is 4/5s ranging to 7s for Dd at grammar with most needing 6 at the subject (and maths if science)

Tiffin looks actually to need 6/7 as well but if you want the sciences 8s and 9s

Thank you all!

Yes we've been to the open day and really liked how the girls are calm and composed. The music department seemed pretty good but I have to admit, I wasn't really that interested at that point, so failed to ask these questions. I also wasn't the expert of asking the right questions at that point which I think I'm pretty good at now!
The induction day is in July and we do need to make the decision by next week so that's too late. I've been looking at an instagram account and whilst it was helpful, it didn't really have a lot of updates.

I actually know a teacher at the school who said she won't send her child to there because the facilities are tired and the teachers are really stretched. I don't mind facilities but a teacher saying that, is something I have been thinking about a lot.

We didn’t hear the story from him / his family. They went completely quiet on us for quite a while around that time. (I inconsiderately went to the local comp, got 4 As and got into Cambridge.)

I heard it from other people who also went to the same school as him. Many many of them. The impression I got was he was been treated as a cautionary tale. (This was the 90s - no GDPR in those days.) So as a minimum that was the official story being told. If there had been any rumours of drugs / misbehaviour / anything at all interesting at all I think that they would have told me. (Met in a pub. They were from a boys school. Me and my friends were girls from the local comp and really rather pretty. They all fell over themselves to tell us all about it with great drama when I asked if they knew him,)

Also knowing him as I did I can’t imagine him being kicked out for misbehaviour. He was a really nice bloke - he just Couldn’t Be Arsed. I guess drugs is far from impossible. His personality was not too far from “total stoner”. Although from what I know of people who went to that school until 16 then came to the sixth form I was at is that if they kicked out for drugs there wouldn’t be many people left!

I went to Tiffin (from a private prep school) whilst my closest friends from prep school went to Putney High (private), St Mary's Ascot (private boarding) and St Paul's Girls (private). Some of my friends now teach at Tiffin.

The experiences I had at Tiffin were essentially the same as the ones they had, except I got better grades. We all got rejected from Oxbridge!

Tiffin was AMAZING for drama - I went on to perform professionally as did lots of our alumni. Loads of school productions plus opportunities to perform professionally, also with the boys' school. Also there was a trip at least every month (highly subsidised) to the theatre - both West End and more experimental off West End stuff.

Residential trips - there was loads in Y7 (bonding ones) and these continued into Year 8 and 9 (went abroad to France etc) plus ski trip, sports tours etc

Sports - incredible - competing in nationals for hockey and netball and in PE we got to do yoga, self defence, loads of brilliant sports. Plus there is a canoeing and watersports activity centre across the road so summer term you would do PE there. Also you could do Duke of Edinburgh either on foot or in canoes and if you did canoes you went to do the expedition in Malta.

Music - orchestras and choirs galore, like Jazz, Chamber, full orchestra, musical theatre - multiple musical activities every day, plus involvement in the Borough-wide orchestra which then toured internationally. Lots of girls went on to Oxbridge as choral scholars.

MFL - excellent. I did French and Spanish A Level, of course there were native speakers teaching!!!! And in Feb half term we went to language school in a French or Spanish town which was fab.

Art/design tech - there is a kiln for clay, a whole metalworking department where we made jewellery, textiles, excellent fine art dept.

Science - yes there's practical lab work (sorry I was more a humanities and arts person but we definitely did plenty of practicals in Y7 to 11).

My grades were better than my friends who went private (straight A*s) and I was not someone you'd have predicted that for - I actually only got into Tiffin on waiting list as didn't score highly enough on 11+ initially. Also, I'm the only one of us who is still actually friends with the friends I made at secondary school - the other girls who went to private school seem not to have kept in touch so much. Tiffin is a really bonding experience and a lot of effort goes in via the house system to ensure close friendships.

The hardest thing for me was the commute and that can be so daunting for young girls. If your daughter wants to go to Tiffin and the commute is better then I really really encourage her to do so. I'm really proud I went there and couldn't have had a better time. Can't believe it was free.

@EqualityDuck Wow that is AMAZING! Thank you for sharing all of that. It is exactly what I've been looking for.
Calling out to current parents of Tiffin girls - would you say the girls at the school now would have a similar experience?

I know for a fact that pastoral care in all free schools are quite stretched due to lack of funding compared to private schools. So that’s one more dimension to consider. If everything is good, it’s all fine. If things start going south due to high pressure in super competitive schools, than you might struggle.

Not necessarily the care DD got was amazing they had a lot of in site care and she got therapy sessions etc straight away.

DS school also has a lot as well