FOI for secondary appeal information?

[FOIfrustration]

I know there is lots of expertise on here so am hoping someone may be able to help me.

In appealing for a Y7 place I contacted the school and requested information about the number of children currently on roll for Y7 - Y11, any years for which the NOR for Y7 has exceeded PAN and the number of pupils that have left and/or joined any year other than in September. The school said they do not choose who gets admitted to their school and to ask the LA for the information instead. I contacted the LA and my request has been bounced around but I've finally been told it'll be dealt with as a FOI request.

I was a bit surprised by this as I thought the admissions authority has to provide any information reasonably needed for an appeal.

Am I able to push for it not to be processed as an FOI request?

@panelchair and @prh47bridge I had meant to tag you both and ask your thoughts. Is FOI necessary? Thank you!

Yes, you are. If this is a community school or a VC school, the LA should provide this information. If it is any other type of school, the school should provide the information. Either way, they need to answer the question now, not try to delay things by asking for an FOI request. Remind them of paragraph 2.8 of the Admission Appeals Code.

Thank you @prh47bridge! I have replied to the LA to that effect so will see what happens...

I’m no longer taking part in appeals threads - anything useful I might have to say, I’ve already said many, many times over the years - but since you tagged me …

prh47bridge is, as ever, on the money. The code requires admission authorities to meet all reasonable requests for information and they should not be hiding behind FOI. Stand your ground.

Thank you @PanelChair I'd not realised you'd moved on from appeal threads or I wouldn't have tagged you! It'll be interesting to see if the LA manages to provide the information having been reminded of the Admission Appeals Code.

@FOIfrustration if you were to put that FOI into my school's admissions authority it would be rejected on the grounds that it is intended for future publication in the school's appeal case. See https://ico.org.uk/media/1172/information-intended-for-future-publication-and-research-information-sections-22-and-22a-foi.pdf

That's interesting. I would have thought NOR for at least the current Y8-Y11 would have already been published somewhere; probably in the course of appeals held last year. In any case, the Admission Appeals Code states information reasonably needed should be provided and I think the NOR information falls under that.

NOR can change throughout the year. At our school year 7 is usually at PAN at the start of September. If any leave during the year they are immediately filled from the waiting list so we stay at PAN. However, sometimes we are obliged to go over PAN by extraordinary admissions e.g. in-year EHC admissions, or Fair Access Protocol admissions, or offsite placements. Same can happen in older year groups. The latest numbers always go into the school's appeal statement.

If extraordinary admissions have pushed us over PAN then we wouldn't admit from the waiting list until we had dropped below PAN again.

@cleethorps I'm aware how NOR can vary over the course of a year and also how schools can be directed to admit over PAN. I'm asking the LA for the numbers on this as I'm aware we live in an area of fairly high mobility which is relevant to my appeal.

Well, as I said, that information should be in the admission authority's statement.

Do you already have the admission authority's statement, or not yet? Is the LA the admissions authority? Or is it an academy or voluntary-aided or foundation school with a different admissions authority?

I don't have the admissions authority's statement yet. The deadline for submitting an appeal was 31st March and I'd asked for the information in order to prepare for that. It wasn't provided in time and today I learned it would be processed as a FOI request.

It is a community school, the admissions authority is the LA.

Your appeal statement should focus on your own case. The school's case will be published by the admissions authority later. If it omits key information you can ask for it at that point. If it isn't supplied, you can mention it at your appeal. You can also submit further evidence of your own, so long as the panel Chair agrees (which they probably will).

How does the area having high mobility fit into your appeal?

Some schools locally have a lot of coming and going. Even some of the most popular schools lose Y7s but the places aren't always filled because people don't want to move their child once they've started elsewhere (this is something I have been given information about for a different school). I would find it helpful to know if this is ever the case for this particular school.

@cleethorps My appeal statement does focus solely on the disadvantage to my DC and has been submitted.

The level of movement isn't really relevant to your appeal. The panel cannot take that into consideration.

It isn't in my appeal statement and I wouldn't expect a panel to consider it. I suppose the movement is more relevant to what we might do about educating DC if none of the appeals are successful.

"but the places aren't always filled because people don't want to move their child once they've started elsewhere (this is something I have been given information about for a different school). I would find it helpful to know if this is ever the case for this particular school."

@FOIfrustration If schools have places, then they are obliged to try and fill them from the waiting list. The other school that you say you have information about has attempted to do this but hasn't been able to. Your appeal school is not in that situation. You can be certain of that, because you are still on a waiting list for it and haven't been offered a place.

What number are you on the waiting list?

The admissions authority should give you all reasonable information you need, but I suspect it's the request for the movement data each year thats what's tipped it into an FOI, rather than just a request they can get someone to sort asap. NOR should be easy, as should number who joined this September, but all the movement in and out over the years is much more of a data dig (and not relevant to an appeal as previous posters have said). So they have lumped it all into an FOI.

You could also try to get current number on roll in each year from the school as a single stand alone request, as they should absolutely know that, as well as number who started in September 24, (as current number accepted for this Sept, as that may be over PAN) as well as pushing the LA.

Thank you @PatriciaHolm that's an interesting point. I only asked for the movement data because it had been given to me by the other school. I've not heard any more from the LA today and my appeal statement was submitted a few days ago so there's no particular rush now.