11+ from state primary into private and grammar

[meandmydoggy]

DD is currently in Year 1.

From preschool, in the term she turned 3, she went to a 3 to 18 girls private school, we took her out at the end of reception as we moved , both of getting new jobs in SW London.

We placed her in a local state primary, 4 mins walk and she's fitted in quickly, but theres' so much she's now missing on- tennis lessons, swimming, language classes, music lessons etc. We have arranged private swimming , cello lessons and tennis, all the things she had in reception in her old school and it means we lose all the weekend!

Part of us want to keep her in the school till 11, she's had a big move , left her very good friends and made the most of it in a new house and school.

The school feeds OK local senior schools, but its a tiny portion that head to private or grammar schools.

My question is, for those that did the 11+ through state primary into private and grammar schools, how was it? Did you all tutor, was it hard to motivate for 11+ when most of her friends aren't taking it?

If you’re in SW London you’ll find a proportion of her cohort will be doing the 11 plus for grammar and/or independent school, tutoring from year 5 or so. They won’t talk about it, but they will be doing it! It was a bit hard to motivate yes, but the prize is the place at a shiny and sought after school at the end of it.

Loads will be sitting the 11+ - they may just keep it quiet.

And yes, it can be a faff having to organise extra curricular yourself, but... if they turn out to be really good at something you can also make sure they are getting great teaching/training rather than just having whatever school has provided.

DS went to grammar in SW London from state primary. Actually a lot did sit for it, but everything was very hush hush - we were very open if asked but it turned out all those asking were also sitting!
We tutored for a year but in SW London the only grammars are super selective, so everyone tutors. Wasn’t a big deal to motivate him, and now he is in the grammar I can see if hadn’t been motivated he wouldn’t have thrived there.
I will say loads of those who tutored and sat for it didn’t really seem to know what was going on or how to approach it. They’d send their kid to sit for this exam having done a BBC Bitesize quiz and then they’d confidently tell everyone their kid was going to X school. I’ve had parents of younger children approach me and say “oh your son goes to X? My sons going to go there on a tennis scholarship hopefully!” When the school is a state school offering no scholarship and has no tennis team. Then when the kids inevitably don’t get in it’s all “oh it’s impossible to get in unless you tutor for YEARS and really pressurise your kid” or “the school is an awful hothouse who don’t let their kids play sports”.

So my advice

1. it’s very doable
2. they need to want to go and work hard off their own back
3. more people are sitting than you think
4. be prepared with some diplomatic responses to any mildly bitchy comments you will get when yours gets in and theirs don’t

Not London but if its helpful
DD was at a good State Primary and did the 11+ for Grammar (not a Grammar area) and also an entry/scholarship exam for a non selective Private school.
A few DC in her year did the 11+ and 3 including her did well enough for a place, she was also offered a 25% academic scholarship to the Private School.
We chose Private and she adapted very well. She went State for 6th form as there isn't one at the school and is now at Uni.
DS didn't do the 11+ as we had decided he would go to the same school as his sister and again fitted into Private absolutely fine, due to do GCSE's soon.
Very glad we took the route we did for both of them

Thanks for these great replies !!

Yes, I suspect lots must try out for Grammar, secretly, they really are a golden ticket.

Its re-assuring it can be done, DD has fallen in love with her new school, so don't want to move her, but don't want to limit her choices for senior school.

@meandmydoggy hi my ds went from stat to grammar and was tutored and my dd moved primary schools from state to private and then went to grammar for secondary school.

It can be done it is just a commitment from the parents…what helped for us was that they were tutored in a group and made friends with these groups . So it became more fun rather than more work.

We started at the end of Year 4 so they were in the swing of it when they were in Year 5

It depends on the child. We're not in a grammar area. DD1 went to a state primary right through and had a tutor for about 6 months before the entrance test to her selective independent secondary (+ 1 other school). We also did the verbal, non-verbal and CAT4 practice at home. DD2 is as capable as DD1, but really tricky to get to do extra work at home, so we've moved her to a prep that leads through to an independent secondary, though isn't guaranteed. It means she will be continuously assessed, which we feel is a better fit for her and much less stress for us. It has lots of other benefits, and I'm hoping for an easier time in year 7 too.

Honestly children are not missing out if they don’t play the cello at school. As long as your DD is happy, that’s the main thing. Happiness is so so important (and I say this is a primary and a mum). Respectfully, OP, your DD won’t feel like
she is missing out at all. She will be enriched by her friends, and being happy where she is. You may feel she is missing out, but she really isn’t. I have taught hundreds of children who haven’t had access to the activities you describe, and many of them have been happy (and some are now very well rounded, successful adults!).

I don't necessarily agree, and I think it depends on the child. Both of mine (who went from state primary to private) have had their lives pretty much transformed by the music provision at their school. Although they also get lots out of their friendships (one is much more sociable than the other), I would say that they derive a huge amount of their fulfilment and joy out of the extra curricular stuff they've been able to do. One of them is now looking to pursue music at university and beyond, which I don't think would have happened without the immersion he's been able to have at school - the other isn't, though by the by he is now looking to pursue an academic path that he might not have found elsewhere, without the slightly more niche subject opportunities that he's had (classics and languages). Those kinds of opportunities don't matter to every child, of course - but sometimes they can help a child discover and develop a passion that they wouldn't have found otherwise.

Anyway - I digress. To answer the question, yes, it was absolutely fine doing the grammar plus private exams from state primary. We are in a grammar county, so there's lots of people tutoring, although actually one of mine was the only person in his year group who took the tests, as it happened not to be a very academic cohort. The other knew quite a few who were doing the grammar tests. Nobody they knew was doing private school entrance. But they just completely accepted it - they're the kinds of kids who enjoy an academic challenge (hence being a good fit for selective school in the first place, otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it), they'd visited and liked the school's they were aiming for, and we didn't push it too hard - about 2 hours a week for grammar for a few months (one hour tutoring, which tbh was probably unnecessary, plus an hour of practice papers, which was definitely essential). For private we didn't tutor, but we did a past paper a week for about two months.

When my (Merton borough) DC came out of the Wandsworth Test she said the entire test classroom was from her school. Up until then she hadn't realised how many were doing 11+ with her but it was at least 30 out of their 3 form entry state primary. We tutored 1 hour a week to get her used to the testing material and she got a place at the school we wanted where she's flourished. Others tutored more hours and got places at more academic schools.

We are currently working on 11+. DD is in Y5 and we started summer term of Y4. We are aiming for private schools, no grammar schools in our area. I think she can get in, she is very clever and motivated. She is doing an 11+ tutor group and works with Bond books. In my limited experience I wouldn’t start too early as it will feel very long for children. Just encourage lots and very diverse reading.
I definitely feel like she is missing out at state school and she is also not challenged at all and has been bored for at least a year. We do a lot of driving to extracurriculars which is time consuming. The sports offerings and music at her school is frankly a joke.

in retrospect I wish I had moved her to private in Y4 or Y5. In Y4 it became very clear that school is not challenging for her and private prep schools help prep for 11+ or feed into a secondary.

OP keep her at the primary. I saw this as a parent who kept my kids at the local walkable primary. This is invaluable. Think about the time you and your child are saving commuting to the private school. This should balance out some of the time you are spending travelling to extra curricular activities. My children have gone on to private secondary and grammar since so it worked for us. If in SW London make sure you find a tutor early and register with them, I hear they have long waiting lists.

We did state primary to private selective secondary (also applied for grammar). About 1/4 of the class was also applying for various different schools (quite a range, grammars, private, state with aptitude for music/drama), more of the boys than the girls as it happened, but it didn’t make our DDs in any way unusual.

We did home prep, but found it quite easy to motivate them with tours of the schools, looking at the websites, discussing all the clubs etc. A tutor would also have techniques to motivate, I’m sure.

The tricky bit is not knowing (through CAT scores or via a prep head) where to pitch applications - but you can pay for a one off assessment, or just do a range. And I do think it’s a lot less intense and pressurised for the DC (maybe not the parents!) doing 11+ from a state primary.

Agree with the bit about not knowing where your child sits in terms of ability and achievable schools, which means you should consider applying for a wide range and maybe looking at something like Atom to get an idea of CAT score. Being told that your child is “greater depth” (or not) doesn’t give you much of a clue! This isn’t a criticism of state education btw, advising parents on private schools is not what state primaries are for.

In my part of SW London there are loads of kids who do state primary and private secondary. (No grammars particularly near). Lots of tutoring, there are even Saturday schools run by tutor companies to prep for the entrance exams. I think many start in y4 unless their child is naturally top of the class and even they have some tutoring in exam technique. The state schools do not prep the kids for entrance exams.

The private senior schools tend to take at least 1/3 of their intake from state schools so it’s a well trodden path.

Thanks all.

All these comments have been very helpful and much food for thought.

I think we'll stick to state with the 'extra's ' for 11+, keeping a sharp focus if DD is even suitable for many London super selective schools at 11+.

@Covidwoes I agree a child can be well rounded without all the extra's, but its a sad state affairs when things like music lessons and swimming and varied sports are seen as 'extras', rather than part and parcel of a broad education. All the great things learning an instrument gives a child, like commitment, discipline and creativity, why not start that at reception? For mental health playing sport is excellent, swimming is a brilliant way to keep fit. Shouldn't this be the norm for all primary aged children from reception?

@Hoppinggreendid you apply for the academic scholarship?

Yes.
The school held a day for around 20 DC and they did assessments and interviews, we had to say before the day if we wanted DD to be considered for a Scholarship. All the kids did the same tests but only the Scholarship application kids were interviewed. I think 2 Scholarships were given

My question is, for those that did the 11+ through state primary into private and grammar schools, how was it? Did you all tutor, was it hard to motivate for 11+ when most of her friends aren't taking it?

We did-we didn't pay for tutors but did familiarise them with the format. Most of their friends took it as well, so it was pretty standard. What makes you think it will only be your family doing the 11+ out of her friends?

My question is, for those that did the 11+ through state primary into private and grammar schools, how was it? Did you all tutor, was it hard to motivate for 11+ when most of her friends aren't taking it?

as far as I know my DD is the only one in her class but I didn’t do a survey. We have a tutor, she goes to a group class run by this tutor and work at home. We practice a little but often and try not to overwhelm her.

we are showing her the schools we are aiming for and it’s not hard to motivate her at all. She is excited by those schools and the opportunities she would have there. She also knows other children at those schools and they tell her some of the fun things they do.
Of course this only works if your child has interests like music, sports, science etc. If you don’t pursue any interests or hobbies then the child is unlikely to be interested in a school with good science labs or nice sports courts.
as I said before the key thing you can do now IMO is support a wide range of frequent reading (fiction, non fiction, magazines, poetry etc). Also the maths level for 11+ is more advanced than state school level at that age, so we need to put more work into that.

In our area all children who apply automatically are considered for academic scholarships. All children do 11+ and an interview and I guess the scholarships are offered to the top ones.

I’m in SW London too (Kingston borough) and it is certainly very common for children in state primary to sit the 11+ for grammar (less so for private secondary but it does happen). It’s several years since my kids were that age, but when the Tiffin first round exams took place, I would say 75% of the year sat them! And there is a lot of tutoring that goes on, even if it’s not spoken about (names of the good tutors get shared by word of mouth).

@meandmydoggy if she loves her school, keep her there. She will need the right support from year 5 to do well in the 11+ My older two dc did well in the 11+ coming from state schools (youngest is 5, so a ways to go). But anyway, you just need to know the right sort of prep. I have seen many dc not pass the 11+ exams from state schools and a few that do. Most important now is for them to enjoy school.