Science teacher at secondary - should it be a specialist?

[Hollyhedge]

Hi all,

DS shortly taking GCSEs. On for triple science. His mock grades seem to have come down in chem and physics but gone up in bio. My mum, who was a teacher, thinks they should have specialists for triple science GCSE. DS’ teacher this year is Bio grad. I am not blaming him (not going to get us v far with 8 weeks to go!), it may just be DS is struggling. Also, the school has to use the teachers they have and we have generally been v lucky

However, what are your thoughts on bio grad teaching Chemistry and Phyisics??

Thank you

Obviously ideally they should BUT it's almost certainly a choice between a biology teacher and a non-science teacher. Or no teacher at all. Science teachers are in very short supply!

I think mum is looking back 20- 30 years ago…

Result of national teacher shortage. Many don't even have permanent teachers, let alone subject specialists!

The school will be doing their best with the teachers that they have.

Physics teachers in particular are in short supply.

There is a huge shortage of science teachers. Most science teachers teach outside of their subject

I suppose in an ideal world - yes each subject should be taught by subject specialists. However Physics teachers are like hens teeth. The city institutions love Maths and Physics graduates and pay sooooo much more.

Many biology grads would have studied chemistry to A level, and some of their course would have had biochemical aspects.

Yeah I think bio/ chem is slightly more achievable. Trying to do physics would be much tougher. Hey ho, onwards we go!

I have 3 points to make here.

1 as many posters have said schools have to use whatever teachers they have. Some years ago the situation was that in one particular year there was only ONE graduate on the Teacher training programme - ONE. There were plenty of Physics graduated but they didn't want to teach.

1. I was a teacher whose role in the school was disappearing but they wanted to keep me on - so they gave me a y9 science group. That was hard although I did have scientific knowledge

3 I was HOD when I retired (Design and Technology) with over 30yrs experience. The school couldn't afford to appoint another teacher so they 'promoted' a younger colleague who had no experience at all. His only qualification in the subject was 2 weeks work experience at a fast food chain.

Be grateful he has a qualified teacher at al

Thanks. But I don’t think any of us need to be grateful for having a teacher at all. My parents and sister are teachers - I think it’s about time the profession got the status and pay it deserved and children did have suitably qualified teachers. DS is in a school with v high deprivation which makes it even harder for the school to recruit.

I’m not cross with the school at all, but grateful that my son and his peers have a teacher at all, no sorry…

We reap what we sow. We’ve allowed the degradation of the welfare state and its institutions for decades now by voting in successive governments who are happy to cut spending on those institutions in the name of austerity.

I think for, say, year 10 upwards it really should be. I'd be a lot more relaxed for the earlier years.

Why would you be more relaxed? Why is it any less important to get a good foundation in all sciences?
Parents should be up in arms about this not just shrugging and accepting it.

It does ramp up over the years but especially year 7, even really year 8 science content is really super basic. I'd much rather e.g. have that material taught by relative a layperson who had decent pedagogic chops than a much more technical person who did not.

I agree. The status of the profession is being constantly downgraded.

Well the content is getting harder. I think that was my mum’s point. Year 11 separate sciences is getting v tricky for a non specialist

Yes so it's even more vital that they get to grips with the basics in Yr 7+8. None of this is acceptable so why are parents just sitting back?
The answer is that the teaching crisis is being hidden by tutoring. Take away any access to tutors and the reality would be laid bare.

I agree with that. But the harder the material the better you need to be yourself. Someone who can teach GCSE can’t teach A level etc

The tutoring - absolutely.

When I did my Science PGCE I could teach all of them to GCSE but only my speciality at A level. (Which due to my degree was actually Physics and Biology although officially I was a Physics teacher)

DD is going to do a degree in mathematical physics in September, incidentally her GCSE teacher had a PhD in physics and encouraged her immensely.
I've been surprised how the universities all pushed their courses (integrated Masters) as an entry into finance and banking with careers such as an actuary.
DD said she didn't know anyone who would choose teaching because the wages are so low and that she wouldn't be able to afford a decent (as she sees it) standard of life.

Teacher retention/recruitment crisis. This is why.

And yet there are STILL MN members being highly critical of teachers. Adding to the problem.

Who is being critical of teachers? I can see criticisms of the system yes, but not teachers.

@twistyizzyparents are attacking teachers left, right and centre. The number of emails from demanding and aggressive parents that teachers (especially HOY and HT) receive at my school is obscene.

Who is being critical of teachers? I can see criticisms of the system yes, but not teachers.

There are countless posts on here from parents complaining about what teachers have said to their child, how they said it, how loudly they said it, who they've sat their child next to etc etc

It’s interesting though. My DD is currently doing a PGCE in chemistry. On her course they are expected to be up to speed to teach all 3 sciences to GCSE level, but only their specialism to A’ Level. However, both her teaching practice schools have Yrs 7,8 and 9 taught by non-specialists (but scientists) and Yr 10 onwards by the relevant specialist.
These are not leafy secondary schools, but ordinary ones in local towns.

Not on this thread