Sevenoaks School or Twggs

[NoeB]

Hi, my daughter missed the TGS cut-off by 1 point. We have been offered TWGGS as a second option, as well as a scholarship at Sevenoaks School. We need to decide about Sevenoaks School before the second round of school offers.
Is Sevenoaks worth the money compared to these two grammar schools? Could anyone advise on the chances of getting an offer from TGS? If we don't receive an offer from TGS and decline the Sevenoaks scholarship, would TWGGS be as good as TGS, or should we accept the Sevenoaks offer over the possibility of TGS? Another option we are considering is trying to enroll in Sevenoaks at Year 9 instead 😐

What would you do? Any experience or insight on this will be really appreciated!

By scholarship, do you mean a token academic scholarship or a substantial bursary?
Sevenoaks School is very expensive especially with VAT - I just looked up the fees! Can you afford this? Usually the private school will offer loads of extra experiences but only you can decide if it is “worth” it. If your child is academic, they will do well academically anywhere, especially in a grammar school.
Is this inner or outer area TOGS? Because the threshold for getting in to outer area TOGS may well go up and not down, especially this year. For some reason, outer area Judd is lower this year than has been the case historically so I expect that one to definitely go up especially since Dartford decreased outer area number of places.

Yes, she got an academic scholarship (although there’s no discount on fees). We can afford SS, and we know it has great facilities and lots of extracurricular activities. However, if we put those aside, which option would you choose?

We are in the inner area for TGS—what are our chances?

"Worth it" is so subjective I'm not sure how to answer that. I don't know how significant the money is for your family and there isn't some objective metric to distinguish sevenoaks from TWGGS. How does your DD feel about an all-girls school vs coed? Is she a student who will really benefit from smaller class sizes? Is the preparation for IB and its offering at 16+ a positive or negative for her? Has she shown interest in foreign languages that Sevenoaks could better meet?

But I think the "put all that aside" in reference to the facilities and extracurriculars is really the wrong thinking. If those things really don't matter to you, stick with state whether that ends up being TWGGS or TGS. Sevenoaks is very much a private a boarding school and all of those facilities and sports and clubs aren't just available, they are also part of an expectation that students participate in a heavy co-curricular program and sports/games (well beyond the 1x per week PE class required at grammars). Students are there 6 days per week including Saturday lessons, typically until 6PM. There will be far more variety available and resources to explore whatever she's interested in and music, art/design, drama and competitive sports will all be available at a higher level, and that's a huge part of the fees. So don't set it aside - does that have significant positive value for your family and DD? It isn't worth paying for something you and your DD are ambivilant about or will actively dislike.

Re: the possibility of trying to enroll at Sevenoaks in Y9, unless you're open to a boarding place I would ask the school how many "late-entry" Y9 day students they normally admit each year and if there's a difference in boys/girls so that you understand a bit better about the chances of success. I know they usually only admit about 40 day students to Y9 (the majority of Y9 joiners are for boarding places) and my understanding is that some portion of these are "early decision" students who apply and accept a place in Y6 but whose current prep schools go through Y8.

Based on prior years (the scores that got offered at each of round 1, round 2 and from the wait list over the last several years are available online) I would be optimistic about your DD getting into TGS either at the 2nd offer round or from the waitlist, but there's never a guarantee and this has the potential to be a slightly unusual year with VAT coming in.

I have had friends with children in all 3 schools . All children had a positive experience and enjoyed their time at the school.

For the patents. The 2 at Sevenoaks praised it to the skies. The ones I knew in the other two were happy with the school no complaints but nor did they praise.

All children went on on to university

For Tonbridge the waiting list in last years were

2023: 1st round (378/393), 2nd round (375/392), Waiting List (377/383)
2024: 1st round (375/396), 2nd round (373/414), Waiting List (373/396)

Thank you so much for the insight. You are absolutely right, but my DD doesn't necessarily need all those extracurricular activities to be well-rounded or perform better academically. She has been involved in several extracurricular activities outside of school from a young age, and she plans to continue them if she attended a grammar school. Choosing a grammar school would give us the flexibility to balance her activities without committing to a Saturday school schedule.
Additionally, I have some reservations about a coeducational school. She tends to be quite shy and sometimes feels frustrated when boys overshadow her and prevent her from showcasing her abilities. On the other hand, SS is a very convenient option for us due to its proximity. She is already somewhat familiar with the school and, having been awarded a scholarship, I believe she could thrive there even more than at a grammar school, where class sizes are larger and resources might be more limited.

If you value academic grades above all else and Russell Group uni entrance, grammar school tends to be fine. TOGS is a fantastic school but obviously they do IB only, but then Judd does A levels for those who want to switch and do eg Medicine (taking 3 Sciences is not allowed at IB). Also Maths and Further Maths and Computer Science and Physics type A level combo means A levels sometimes do win out, although the IB is excellent prep for independent study and thriving at university and is great for linguists and all rounders. It is a lot of extra work though and the UK uni system DOES NOT recognise that extra work sufficiently (at least, in my opinion).

OP I would call Admissions at TOGs and speak to them. Everyone says they are lovely and will be able to guide you, hopefully.

I think shining at extracurricular at school itself can really boost a shy child’s confidence and I would assume that a school like Sevenoaks would do just that.

However, the way you describe your DD really sounds like TOGs would be a really good fit for her. Fingers crossed you get an offer in due course. When I looked at the Kent test results for DS back when they were published, there seemed to be fewer top scorers the normal. I think maybe the test was harder this year. We counted how many above him and he got a lower score than his siblings years ago, but there were not many kids above him and he certainly would have qualified for Judd this year (although he is going to a London superselective instead because of logistics). So it may look like Judd/Toggs have lower scores this year for inner but I believe (subjectively) the test must have been harder this year.

Thanks @Enko, do you know which universities they all attended? SS has a good track record of students progressing to Oxbridge, whereas the other local grammar schools seem to have slightly fewer.

Despite the VAT issue, our chances of receiving an offer from TGS are quite high. However, part of my dilemma is that once we pay the first term's fees at SS, we won’t be in a position to decline it in favour of an offer from TGS🙁

The highest performers at GCSE in local grammars can then go to Judd/St Olave’s at Sixth Form so you can’t trust the Oxbridge statistics. Both those are mixed in Sixth Form and seem to cream off some of the best grammar girls.

Thanks @Araminta1003. Both SS and TGS offer the IB, which seems to be gaining more recognition nowadays. I did call TGS, but unfortunately, they don't have any information about the waiting list yet, as they won’t have control over it until after the 24th of April.
Are you from Kent or London? Is your DS’s superselective school in London another grammar?

We are from London and DS going to a superselective boys grammar closer to home next September. If you are close to
London Bridge station you can access a fair view grammars logistically speaking. Dartford or Judd were on our list but further down. I don’t want to say which one we went for because I post a lot and don’t want my DCs identified.

I can give you details of 8 children/ young adults (I knew more children going to the schools but have lost touch with what child is where for uni so going with my childrens close friends. )
The 2 I knew at SS went to Durham and Birmingham
The 2 at Twigs went to Bristol and Cambridge
1 I knew at TOGS is at a university in Australia I can't recall what one sorry.. I want to say Melbourne
1 is at Nottingham
1 is not at uni she has had a baby recently
They are similar age to dd3 who is in year 2 of Uni.
1 is currently on a football scholarship at Cardiff

My own went to schools in Tunbridge Wells so for a while there I had a large knowledge of schools but as mine now are mid university experience or in Masters I've not always got the up to date info. I can state the girls at Twigs behave nicely when they walk put of school and usually appear in a good mood.

If you don't plan to make use of the facilities and activities on offer at SS, definitely take up the grammar. SS will leave you no time to pursue activities outside the school. Its academics are at the same level as grammar schools in the area, so no point paying just for the academics really.

Your first paragraph was exactly what I was getting at. If the co-curriculars and extension are neutral or a potential downside to you (which it absolutely is for some students and families - Saturday school and very long days with required co-curricular engagement has some real downsides for many) then I would really consider whether private has much value. That full-on environment is a huge part of what you're paying for at a school like Sevenoaks so it should be something you and your DD really want for her.

Despite the VAT issue, our chances of receiving an offer from TGS are quite high. However, part of my dilemma is that once we pay the first term's fees at SS, we won’t be in a position to decline it in favour of an offer from TGS

If you're prepared to pay five full years of fees plus all the extras then you can afford to potentially lose one term of fees [less any deposit already placed - that's sunk cost] in order to keep that option open if TGS doesn't come through. Yes it will feel lousy to do but it is absolutely an option and one a lot of families take.

@Araminta1003 , @Enko , @GravyBoatWars and @sevensister, thank you so much for sharing your opinions and experiences with me. I think we'll probably go for the grammar option and see what happens 🙏🙂

Whichever you go for, hopefully you'll make a decision and give up the other one quickly, as presumably there'll be people very eagerly waiting for places at both schools.

I think that sounds like an excellent choice. As a parent I've have/have had DC at a mix of comprehensive, grammar and private schools and I'm a big proponent of not assuming private will be better. My best advice, particularly if tuition is a stretch, is that you should be able to identify specific needs and wants of your child that won't be met in their state options with parent-funded co-curriculars and enrichment/tutoring but would be met in the private school. Generic statements like "it's a better school" or "they get better test scores"[which is usually largely a result of selective intake and retention] don't count. If you're struggling to make a list for that question then private usually isn't a wise use of those family resources. It seems like you've come to that conclusion for your family/DD re sevenoaks.

Your DD is in a great position with no bad options, but I'll keep my fingers crossed that you get that exciting email from TOGS when the second round of offers are made.

Hi, I'm an actual sevenoaks student lurker on here, and I really like the school!! I think that to get the most out of being in this school, you have to make sure to do lots of extracurriculars, so that you actually get your money's worth, otherwise there's no point.

There is quite a bit of work, but it varies from week to week, one week you could have like 2 homeworks, and sometimes you could have like 10 and 3 tests. At one point I had 15 homeworks due! But you just have to stay on top of it. You should definitely consider if your kid is ok with that

Hi @ssstudentlurker, thank you for your response. My DC is into sports, music and Art but we were not sure about the school on Saturdays neither the co-educational system. So, we decided to declined the school offer at Sevenoaks School for Y7 entry and try the grammar school. If we are not happy with it, then my DC will try SS again for Y9 entry. Lets see what happens 🤞🏼

nice ! good luck :)

DD was at TGS a few years ago. Whilst she is intelligent, her confidence wasn’t great at the time of her being there. My only suggestion to you is to think carefully on this when deciding which school is best for your DD. TGS is very much about their results rather than nurturing the students and IB is very different to A’levels. I wish my DD had the possibility of attending another school but it wasn’t possible at the time as we were out of area and in the throes of moving.
Your DD’s happiness is paramount here. I hope she goes to the school best suited to her and wish her all the very best for her future.