Advice on choosing secondary schools.

[Lamama15]

Hello everyone,

I'm very new to this forum but reading other threads, just came in with a hope to get solution. We are currently living in the south east of England and me and hubby are both working. Hubby is self employed and I work in a nursery, and we are quite satisfied with our work in our town. But now we have an issue to look at. Our DD is in Year 5 and preparing for grammar school. There is no grammar school in our town and the one nearest to our town is very hard to get into. Its highly oversubscribed with cut throat competition and tiny catchment area too. The problem is we have to be in catchment area before the test. But I'm not sure if DD will be able to clear the test. If not, there is no point of moving to that catchment area.
So we have decided to move to Midlands which have good number of grammar and other secondary schools. My husband's and my work is gonna be affected there as the work options are very limited and not really good. But still, we decided to move in there with hope that we will manage ourselves somehow. We are aiming for sutton grammar school for girls but want to have second option in the mind, in case she couldn't get in the grammar school. I have heard Arthur terry school is good one but very limited catchment area. The second school is Bishop Walsh, but as its a Catholic school, I have doubt about my daughter getting in there ( we are non Catholic). We have looked for a property which is 0.8 miles from Arthur terry but I'm bit skeptical if it's good distance to get into the school. That's the only property we have found with the budget we can afford.
P.S. we are also looking for good primary school at the same time as my DS is in Year 3 and little DD is in Year 1. Any help in the form of discussion, suggestion, advice is much appreciated as we are in the great confusion. This is definitely a very big move for us so I want to get the maximum results for the purpose we are moving.
Thank you.
(Apart from these two school, please tell any other great state secondary school which I don't know).

Have you moved already?

Honestly, I think you’re bonkers! There are so many variables in your plan that are out of your control.
1 - you need to have moved house to the area you want the school within the next couple of months if you’re looking at entrance exams
2 - the house you move to could end up being too far away to get a place
3 - she may not pass the entrance exams
4 - you and DH could struggle for work so your income drops
5 - all 3 DC will have to change schools, you may not be able to get them into the same schools as they’ll be in year admissions so your choice could be non existent.
6 - you’re breaking up your DCs friendship groups, which shouldn’t be minimised

There are other areas with good schools and better career options I’d have thought. I don’t know what field you’re in but there are, for example, excellent schools in North Yorkshire and you have access to Leeds, Sheffield, even commutes to Newcastle for example.

Also, the schools you’ve mentioned aren’t grammar schools.

Exactly what @Soontobe60 said.

It’s a bonkers idea and I think you’d find yourselves in difficult financial circumstances, with no guarantees.

I think you need to plan some more. Midlands is not known for grammar schools - Kent, Essex and Lincolnshire are. I would not risk my spouse's employment for the sake of 5 years of schooling for DD. What does your daughter say?

I know kids her age who have on purposely flunked the tests to go to the same school as their friends.

Gloucestershire has grammars and some decent state schools in some areas.
If you are set on moving, it could be an option.

What is wrong with the state schools where you are now?

You are thinking leaving your jobs and travelling across the country to a new area just so your DD might have a chance to get into a particular state school?

It's bonkers, I agree. What is so wrong with the local schools near your current home? What if you move but DD doesn't pass the test? What if your DD passes the test in this new area but one of your younger children doesn't? What is the non-grammar offer?

What are the non-grammar schools like where you live? If they are decent I would stick with that. Maybe ask if they set pupils by ability. It's a huge amount of upheaval and therefore lots of pressure on your child.

You're mad.

There is no real choice in selecting a school, at all, in my experience. ExDH was convinced he could get DD into a particular school, and we ended up getting offered the worst performing school in our borough. So we went on some waiting lists and got her into not the school exDH wanted, but a good enough one not far from us. She's done very well there.

I think you are too focused on Grammars! London (where I live) doesn't have Grammar schools and some of the secondary schools are excellent! Even in areas with the odd grammar school, secondary schools are good (maybe not as good as Grammars, but not the point). With my DD I found it was partly her desire to learn, partly the support she received, partly if she felt safe and looked after, and also her excellent peer group of friends that helped her do well. It's the holistic approach!

Don't uproot your lives for this. It's too much!

Hi @Lamama15 I agree with others I'm afraid, this is not a good idea.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the English schooling system but are you aware that only about 5% of children attend a state selective grammar school? In other words, despite what you read on MN, the vast majority of DC go to a state comprehensive and do well. (Obviously posters on MN are asking questions about grammar tests etc which skews the view, I see that. No one posts “my local state comp is pretty good and my child is sure to get in, what should I do?”)

Moving jobs to the detriment of your personal and family circs, uprooting the family from friends and local support, moving DC from primary schools to new schools – all for the sake of a chance at a selective school that your DD may not get into? no, I wouldn't even consider that.

Forget the grammar nearest to you as well, sounds like a nightmare with a long commute and tough to get into. Look at local state comps near you. What are they like? Can you see your child thriving there?

If they are not what you want, maybe consider moving locally so you could keep your jobs and social structure, but are in catchment for a school you prefer. But honestly, look at what is there and consider that first.

Support from parents and a good attitude to learning count for as much as being in a selective school without any doubt. And I speak as someone who went to a grammar school.

If you must move, you would be better moving to an area with good comps, then wherever he end up he'll be OK.

There's a few parts of the country with an 11+ system in place for all pupils, Kent being the most populous, in all other parts of the country there is a comprehensive system with just a scattering of grammar schools that managed to avoid the chop in the 70's. For the majority of dc a good comprehensive system is better because there is no pressure aged 9-10 to pass the test, a test that favours deep pockets for tutoring (have friends in Kent!)

Please don't move on this basis, the Midlands overall has a lower standard of attainment on league tables (my dc were brought up in the east mids) and very few grammar schools plus confusingly there's schools that retain grammar in their name but aren't and there are private schools that call themselves grammar schools where the main determining factor for entry is £20k a year! I love the midlands but don't move for schools

Hello All,

Thank you so much for your valuable advice. We want to move to Midlands as we have close family members there. So that's another point of moving there other than schools. The schools near our current place are good but the one near our house requires improvement. We are aiming for sutton girls as grammar and it has open catchment which means we will only move when she is offered a place. The second school I was talking about is Arthur terry which is good state school. Just keeping that school as a second option

Some catholic schools require you to be at mass daily and live next door (the good and oversubscribed) others don't care and accept children allocated a place by the LA.
Grammar schools is not necessarily just getting the pass mark you have to be within the top 120 or so (depending on size of school)
You are also up against the tactical players especially in sixth form where kids from private school go to a relatively poor sixth form to up their Oxbridge brownie points and use the money for tutors)
It is a minefield out there

Moving to be near family is understandable but surely you would look at securing a new job first?

Also most children in the UK don't go to grammar schools. It's a leftover system only in a few locations and you'd be better at looking to move close to good comprehensive schools where your DD would do well if she is willing to apply herself.

Also do think about the effect moving will have on your children. Are they settled and happy where they are. My parents moved for work when I was young and it was a big adjustment for me I never felt I settled well into my new school even though I was still really young.

What about your son? He won't be able to go there?

@Lamama15 hey OP I think you might be confused the boys grammar schools in Sutton are Wilson’s, Sutton Grammar and Wallington. Sutton takes girls in sixth form.

The girls are Wallington and Non Such?

You'd be mad to move from the South East to the Midlands with poor job prospects.

Oh are you calling Sutton Coldfield ‘Sutton’

tbh you’d have more chance of all your children going to a grammar if you moved to Sutton (Sutton Sutton)

tbh you’d have more chance of all your children going to a grammar if you moved to Sutton (Sutton Sutton)

Very hard to get into though

Yeah not easy at all but at least 5 schools to attempt rather than just the one girls school by the sounds of it?
also the state schools are good around Sutton too as back ups

I don't know the Midlands but agree that some parts of Sutton have great non grammar options. Catchments are fairly small though so depends on budget.

The entrance exam which gives access to the grammar schools in Sutton Coldfield (the boys' grammar being Bishop Vesey and also currently with no defined catchment area, but there is scope for that to change by the time a pupil currently in year 3 will be sitting the exam) also allows for application to all the other grammar schools from those in Telford and Wrekin to those in Walsall, Wolverhampton and Warwickshire. Although if the OP only intends to move once her DD definitely has a place at e.g. Sutton, although achieving an initial offer at some of the other schools isn't impossible, it would be very much less likely from well outside the area at the cut-off for CAF submission. And nigh on impossible to get into a school like Arthur Terry, which is run as a normal comprehensive school, for its locality.

Hi.
I'm talking about sutton grammar in Midlands not in Wellington. Hope it clears up the confusion 😊.