Y10/11 Choices (currently in Y9) - DD vs me!

[Poptions]

DD is making her choices over the next couple of weeks for GCSEs. One MAY be a BTEC though ,which is where we are having a disagreement. I have told her that ultimately it is up to her, but I am here to guide her, and as an adult feel I am looking more to the future (and giving her wider options) than her immediate plans.

DD is pretty academic and should achieve decent GCSEs if she applies herself. She currently is veering towards a creative BTEC, whilst I am pushing for a more technical/science GCSE as her final choice, which I feel will be better for her future prospects.

Having spoken with various teachers/the head, they have suggested she do the more techy GCSE, but have stressed it is more work and will require more effort. The BTEC is more fun, and DD is torn, but slightly leaning towards the BTEC.

I don't imagine the BTEC will lead to anything useful for her, career-wise, though who knows, I suppose. The GCSE will definitely be hard, but doable.

How much have you influenced your Y9s, and should I push her to do the GCSE or relent?

And do you think BTECs are still considered inferior?

That's true re not many options as it is. Thanks.

Thanks. Yes, the one less exam option really did appeal to me.
Arg!

Many thanks for your professional input here.

Ime as a teacher, let her do what she wants. Having a "fun" option can be really good for students, give them a more creative outlet to use different softer skills like communication, group work etc. If it is a coursework based Btec it will mean fewer exams.
Unless she has her heart set on a career in CS, which it doesn't sound like, let her do the Btec.

Thanks to all so far who have helped. Really giving me pause. I absolutely will let her choose, but figure it is my job to impart some advice, and it was asked for, as she's been a bit uncertain, and still not fully committed to picking the BTEC, but I feel more open to it.
Welcome more thoughts, but signing off for tonight to sleep on it (not be able to get to sleep, probably!).

Thanks. She does mention the fun aspect, and says she enjoys it. I obviously want her to be happy, and I do value creativity. Just worried about job prospects with what I consider a BTEC that likely won't really lead to anything, whereas the CS feels like a greater skill to have for the future. Then again, maybe AI will take all those jobs!
The idea of fewer exams at the end of Y11 also really appeals to us both.

No ones job prospects depend on CS at GCSE or a creative Btec. They depend on good grades in the core subjects, and whatever specific A levels and/or degree are needed for the role.

Do GCSEs actually have any impact on earning potential as you’ve mentioned above?? I’m genuinely doubting that they do. Most people go about the houses for a while before they settle down on a career as an adult.

Unless DD has her eyes set on a career with a clear academic route to it (ie doctor, vet, architect etc) I wouldn’t worry about what GCSEs she does as long as she applies herself and does well in them. Only a few lucky people will decide in Y10 what they want to be and actually go and be that thing. For many people it’s a long winded, winding journey

Personally I wouldn't suggest doing A-level CS without GCSE and I think degree level CS without A-level CS would be an extremely steep learning curve. It's certainly possible as maths/further maths is considered more important but if you wanted to do it as a degree then I'd assume you'd probably have been doing a lot of programming in your spare time as a hobby.

Personally I think GCSE CS has the potential to be a lot more useful than an artsy Btec - but it's probably not going to be nearly as enjoyable. The question is what might she want to do in the future? If comp sci isn't really useful to what she wants to do then let her enjoy the Btec, if she's really unsure what she wants to do then comp sci might be more useful and keep her options open more in case if she ends up going down a business studies or maths and physics route. If those are a big no though then back to the Btec.

I know when you are at this stage, choosing GCSEs feels like the most important thing in the world but honestly, as PPs have said, the most important thing is to aim for a decent set of grades across a reasonably broad range of subjects. Obviously if you want to follow certain paths it's crucial that you pick particular subjects. If your longer term goal is to a French degree for instance, you're going to need French A level and hence you'd need to pick French GCSE. But computer science really isn't like that. If your DD wanted to go in that sort of direction in the future, lack of GCSE CS wouldn't preclude it. One of my sons did CS A level and though he did do GCSE there were quite a few in his class who hadn't done so. Now he is at University studying a computing heavy STEM degree and there are plenty of people on the course who didn't do either GCSE or A level, Not all schools even offer it, mainly due to lack of teachers I presume. So it's really not going to blight her life if she doesn't choose it now.
Studying a broad range of subjects that will be as interesting and enjoyable as possible is most likely to lead to a happy and engaged pupil in my opinion, and that in turn increases the chances of a good set of grades. But honestly, it's not worth losing a huge amount of sleep over this particular choice, either is likely to be fine.

Lots of schools don't offer computer science gcse as it's hard to get teachers.

My DD did CS a level and hadn't done the gcse and there was no problem.

Degrees in computer science (as opposed to programming) want maths (and probably further maths) levels. They're not overly bothered about computer science a level.

Programming is pretty easy to learn outside school - there are many languages that make it easy like scratch and then your child can upgrade to python.

The level of programming for gcse is very low. Even at a level it's not high,

If your child is interested in this it may well be better pursued outside school. There are a lot of volunteer run coder dojos in various physical and online places and she'll learn more and quicker than doing the GCSE.

Oh, and the a level computer science does not assume you have done the gcse.

It's not like French or Spanish where the a level assumes some knowledge.

So few people do CS gcse that the a level pretty much takes it from scratch - like doing sociology or economics.

Online coder dojo:

https://www.cococoders.com/online-coding-classes-for-kids?utmsource=google&gaddsource=1&utmcontent=&utmmcampaign=CL+-+Generic+Search+-+Coding+-+UK&gclid=CjwKCAiAiaC-BhBEEiwAjY99qKq06m7BaBdtg9BzVfasXmD8llph2Uqc3nlPClcL3qJ4uSlzwHoGtRoCff8QAvDBwE&utmmterm=online+coding+classes+for+kids&utmmedium=cpc&gbraid=0AAAAAqq8QC-ms3M2yk9cuWQaarHLuxeJb

I would add that if the BTEC in question is Creative Media Production then it's not really very artsy. Or not in the way that Art or Photography GCSE would be.

Most of it is things like understanding how media works in terms of influencing audiences, how to break down audiences and analyse them. How propaganda works, plus bits of film studies, animation, comics, graphics, film making etc. Huge amounts on project planning - gantt charts, story boarding, mood boarding etc etc. But it's definitely not something where you are doing lots of practical art stuff.

Which is why it's potentially very useful as part of a broader education.

I actually work in a role that uses all the above and was entirely ignorant about things like needle theory until I spell checked DD's last essay...

I don't know how other schools run their courses, but until the final assessed units, everything was done at school so it also wasn't the time thief that Art can be, and the assessed units have basically needed 3 weekends to complete.

I’ve being trying fairly hard to influence year 9 DD to take an MFL GCSE - but she wants to do textiles instead, so I feel your pain. (I’m giving up tho’ - she’s more determined than me!)

Having said that, DS did a BTEC in engineering design though and really enjoyed it - and is now doing a very academic set of A levels. What was particularly good about it was that it was part coursework and part an exam that he could take in year 10 and retake in year 11 for a better grade if necessary. It helped reduce the load at exam time.

DD is doing A-level computer science, she did do GCSE CS but she was the last year to at her school as they have no teacher. She lost her teacher only 6 months into her GCSE and had to effectively self teach (although both me and her Dad do know a lot about computers as we have 3 home built ones). So many schools can't get teachers for this subject so doing GCSE isn't a prerequisite for the A-level. In fact DD found some of it quite repetitive in Year 12.

I would let her pick what she wants. As there is no guarantee to get good teaching for GCSE and it's not needed at this stage. The only thing that would be helpful if she was to consider the A-level would be for her to have done some actual programming. This can be done outside of school if she was interested and would probably be far more enjoyable then doing the GCSE.

My dad influenced me massively and I ended up doing 2 of my 4 choice subjects to please him as it's what 'he' wanted me to do.

I hated every lesson over those 2 years and I failed massively in those 2 subjects.

I would say let them choose.

I see lots of pps have said what I will say but anyway:

Firstly it's her that has to do the work and sit the exams. You say fewer exams appeals to her and you - sorry but your role at the end of year 11 is to be there if needed, provide copious snacks and step back. More or fewer exams will not really impact you.

@MrsAvocet has it that GCSE choices seem so so important in year 9, but by the time your DC is 20 you realise it's not really here or there in the scheme of things. What else is she doing? I assume eng x 2, science x 3, maths, maybe a humanity and a language? If so (or roughly) then she is good to go. BTECs are not inferior, just a different way if working. You need to be prepared to put the work in all the way through.

Having read the thread I see the one you want her to take is CS, which was my guess. If she doesn't want to do it for GCSE then she is unlikely to take it further; so it won't make much difference later in life. No one will get a specific job or even a uni place on the strength of having (or not) CS GCSE. Also it's tough to get teachers, the course is dull (acc my DS2) and all in all she should take the subject she is interested in.

If you want to do CS at A level then you will most likely be a coder anyway. So you will be ahead. If she is not sure about CS GCSE she is surely massively unlikely to take it for A level.

The BTEC aspect of a qualification neither sets her up for A levels or not, as you express it. What is the BTEC anyway?

DD decided against Computer Science in the end. She enjoys programming but isn’t fussed on the rest and there’s not much programming in the actual,course. GCSE isn’t needed for A-Level and A-Level isn’t needed for a degree. They all want Maths. We looked at a couple of local sixth form colleges and they don’t even teach the same programming language, she’s done Python and they do different ones. DH is in the industry and encouraged our DD to do what she’s interested in, so she’s gone with RS instead as she enjoys the philosophy and ethics. I’d encourage her towards something she’ll enjoy.

Let her take the one she wants.
There is huge value in a less academic subject (in fact, my DC's school mandates that you take one more creative subject) providing a bit of light relief from very academic GCSEs.

Your child will be choosing 9 subjects. They do not all have to "lead to something". Education should be for enrichment as well.

Computer science GCSE is a very dull qualification (IMO). It will not teach her any useful skills for the future that can't be learnt in another way.

Speaking as a teacher, I can only tell you about the innumerable unhappy stories I have to share of pupils who have been pushed down an unwanted path by their parents. It leaves everyone unhappy and unfulfilled.

STEM subjects are not the be-all-and-end-all and I'm tired of schools forcing kids to think their career prospects are destroyed if they choose to follow a creative path.

If it's something they are passionate about let them take the BTEC.

If you can't do a bit of what you want between 14 and 18, that's quite sad. Let her have a dream without switching off creativity. DS did Art as one of his IB highers and DD did Drama at A'Level. Art and Drama remain life long interests for both of them and didn't stop them getting into Oxford and Cambridge respectively.

We, as parents, facilitate their choices and freedoms. We provide them with boundaries, love and good food. We don't get to make their choices for them

DD1 is in Y11. She is highly academic, and verging on gifted in English and History. Shes doing 8 GCSEs and a BTEC. It is in a subject she really enjoys. I did a lot of asking around as I was also worried about it being seen as ‘lesser’. However she wants to do A’Levels, she’s got all the GCSE subjects she needs to go on and do that, and she will have A’Levels plus a broad range of subjects at GCSE when applying to Uni. Everyone assured me that only a cursory glance would be given to the detail of all the GCSEs - that they would look at the core subjects plus possibly history (that’s what she wants to take to degree level).
So she did the BTEC. At this point I’m thankful - it’s relief from the more intense subjects, most of the work is done and the grade is virtually in the bag, and she is free to focus on the things she is desperate to do well in (less than a 9 in English and History is Not Acceptable!) And she’s enjoyed the variety it’s given her for the last 2 years.

I’d let your DD go for it!

Good morning, all, and thank you so much for the further input. I feel more happy about relenting due to all of you.

I am in the morning school rush and racing off thereafter to work where I can't mumsnet, but I will be back this evening to reply more thoroughly to those who have been kind enough to take the time to respond. Didn't want anyone to think I'd disappeared.

The BTEC is music. DD has to do the BTEC in music as opposed to Music GCSE as she doesn't play an instrument (despite my trying her out on various instruments up to now), but has been enjoying the production side, and of course there are computer/tech elements to this course.

I am definitely taking on board that subjects can be for pleasure too, not having to lead anywhere, I think I just worry about their job prospects and a more tech (e.g. CS) GCSE feels like it is more future-proofy and generally useful.

The other thing I wanted to clarify is having spoken with several of her teachers at the evening they put on to discuss this, they all said CS (we spoke to pastoral lead, head, dep head, tech teachers, science teacher - all said she was suited to CS (head doesn't know her that much, but based on what we said, said CS sounded a good fit). (Apart from the music teachers obviously!)

Yes, but it was so long ago I can't remember a damn thing about anything! I also did biology A Level!