London secondaries for boys - clueless

[anotheridea]

My boy is still further down at primary but I'm looking at options for state secondaries and I am clueless about how the secondary system works - can anyone advise?

We are not Catholic and would ideally want mixed (co-educational) secondary school. Are we restricted to applying only schools in our area / borough or can he apply to any secondary school in London? If not, or if there are some schools that offer places on the basis of particular aptitude like music for example? How do you find out about these ones?

Any recommendations for excellent aspirational mixed secondaries? We are fairly central in south east London.

No advice but wondering this too. Why are there so many single sex secondaries in South-East London? Will it change?

You can apply to literally any state school you want in the entire country. Obviously it is sensible to apply to those which your child is able to get to in time for the start time each morning.

After that you need to start looking at the individual admissions for each school, and ensure that you can tick those boxes.

For example, we don't live in London, but wanted DD to go to school there for secondary (she was at a London primary). Because of our address she was unlikely to get any desirable school on the basis of distance.

However, she was very musical, so I spent weeks going through lists of schools to identify all those that had music aptitude places (and indeed any aptitude tests).

Ended up with a big spreadsheet of schools, what they required in terms of criteria for the aptitude test and the travel routes needed to get there. I also visited something ludicrous like 27 schools... which was quite fun but even I was bored of listening to HT speeches by the end. I started looking when DD was in Y5 so by Y6 I took her to see my top choices (worth going alone the first time as DC are often swayed by quite odd things that you would rather they were not!)

A few schools were ridiculously hard to get to, so they came off the list. We then applied to sit the music tests and the banding tests at all the rest. You can do this with as many as you want. You get the results back before the deadline for submitting the CAF so if you are offered an aptitude place it can go in first place and you're not wasting any slots.

For SE London for music, ones worth looking at are: Kingsdale Foundation School (Music & Sport), Co-ed, not religious; Hatcham New Cross Gate (Music), Co-ed, not religious; West London Free (Music), Co-ed, not religious; Prendergast (Music), Girls, not religious; Camden School For Girls (Music), Girls, not religious.

Google and mumsnet are your friends. Worth searching Music Aptitude Test... there used to be some places that coached for the MAT and had a list of schools. (FWIW we didn't coach and not sure it's worth doing).

My DD got a music space, but we are West London. Councils tend to publish the cut off distances or criteria each year so you can see which schools you would have got into.

If there is a particular school you find in your research and have your heart set on, you could consider moving house, if selection is based on distance, as you have the time to do that. You'd want to have moved in by the autumn of Year 6, and to have sold your previous property.

Very common to do this in London and it doesn't have to be a house purchase as long as you don't own another house nearby, so you can rent a smaller place safely within the last distance offered (which is usually expensive) and then move out once they have started at the school to a cheaper/bigger place. Exact rules depend on the LA so obviously check their website for details.

Thank you, for these very helpful responses.

We don't know yet if music aptitude will be there but it might be at this early stage.

I'm a bit like you @OhCrumbsWhereNow and can definitely see myself getting a massive spreadsheet together, and possibly investing huge amounts of time into this, hence wondering if there are centralised lists or search functions where this task can be made a bit easier.

We are in SE3 and really want to stay (in case anyone has local knowledge).

Wow this is enlightening. How do you find this information?
i have a boy, and am trying to figure out where to send him I thought all the London schools were pretty much based on catchment. I’m keen to learn how I can identify schools that have different selection processes that are accessible from zone 2 Hackney

I am also in SE London and all the secondary schools in our area make offers based on distance from the school. To get into one of the good schools, you have to live within a mile or so from it. I’ve a subscription for Locrating and have found it really helpful for seeing last distance offered for all the local schools in one place. Our choices are sadly very limited.

This is a good starting point: https://www.musicaptitudetests.co.uk/london-school-secondary-transfers/

Basically I did it through talking to other parents, and google.

But I really had awful local options that weren't even that local, so I was very incentivised 😂. Plus I am a geek and love a good spreadsheet.

Most people want a good local school, or don't have the luxury of 'choice' so there isn't really a centralised database as only strange people like me actually want it.

I will say that the aptitude tests are pretty competitive.

A fair number of schools you sit the MAT and then they call back the top 50 or top 80 scorers for the practical elements. One only did aural tests. For the performance ones they generally asked for 2 contrasting pieces on 1st study and you could offer second study as well.

DD was around G6/7 in her first study and G1/2 in her second (she doesn't do exams so we just went with her assessed level... was not an issue with any school state or private not having sat formal exams).

In SE3, it's probably Thomas Tallis, John Roan, or Leigh Academy for state schools. Have a good look at them and make your mind up on what you see, not gossip. You could try Lewisham or Greenwich to see if there is anything there you like the prefer. You may well be too far from Bromley catchments, but if your child is bright, try St Olave's or Newstead Woods.

@bellocchild Newstead Wood is all-girls, so won’t be an option for OP’s son.

If you're in SE3 then most of your local state schools are co-ed, and @bellocchild has given you a good start. There's also Harris Greenwich at Middle Park and Leigh Halley.
St Matthew's Academy is Catholic and Trinity is Church of England.
Lewisham and Greenwich council websites have good info on admission numbers and furthest distance offered this year. My spreadsheet went over a couple of years to keep an eye on how distance was changing 😆
And the best advice I got was like @OhCrumbsWhereNow to start visiting in Yr5 rather than leaving it all till Yr6.

St Olave's isn't!

I’m not sure about this “you can apply to any school” is helpful at all.

In south east London it’s based in furthest distance, which can vary from year to year. The exception would be Kongsdale which is a lottery, but SE3 is a bit of a trek from there. (I also wouldn’t call SE3 central south east London, it’s really quite far east.) You need to find out which are your nearest co-Ed schools and then starting looking around them. You’ll apply via your borough but depending on where you live you might end up applying for neighbouring schools.
Tou might also want to think about the Bexley grammars, depending on where in SE3 you are.

My friend has a child at Thomas Tallis and is very happy with the school. You could also get your son to sit the 11+ for Bexley and Kent. Two of the Bexley grammars are mixed. I know children at Deptford Green, Sedgehill and St Matthew's Academy who all seem happy too. All of those schools are mixed. Read up on the schools and visit.

Would also say depending on your child's age, that visiting before say Y5 might not give you a good idea of a school, as a school can change a lot in a few years! Could be worth visiting if you decide you want to move rather than apply though.

Also consider your dcs journey. Time is not necessarily the issue but ease.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - there is no need for you to quote the opening post to make your reply. It makes the thread much longer than it needs to be.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow
I would love to learn more about schools with Music Aptitude Tests for coed (preferred) or for boys near North East London. I have had a look and am trying to compile a spreadsheet, but feel i've done too little too late. So I would be grateful for any advice and support.

Also does anyone know if it's possible to do the MAT test for in year transfers? I've just noticed a lot of schools do their MAT test for Year 6 entry at the end of the last school year, so already missed them

thank you for any advice

List here: https://www.musicaptitudetests.co.uk/london-school-secondary-transfers/