Daughter refused Sen school so upset

[CornflakesCorn]

I’m so upset, I home educate my daughter not through choice as they wouldn’t give her a place in a Sen school. Well I did an annual review with the LA as I’m desperate to get her back into school I can’t cope with her at home anymore I’m seriously losing
My mind. She even had a visit from a Sen school she’s not doing any learning anymore as my mental health can’t cope with it I can’t do this anymore. Well they’ve only gone and said mainstream! Even after the Sen school visited why I feel like crying! They clearly saw how much she struggles she cried the whole time they was there and didn’t engage at all! How on earth has she been given mainstream what do I do now I can’t keep her at home I’m losing the will to live any advice as I can't cope with her at home anymore I can't believe they've said mainstream
For a child that can't even hold a conversation

@Midsummernightsdreaming I see - thank you. The majority of the children I work with as an EOTAS Tutor have either never been in a school setting or have not been in one for a number of years so it wouldn't be the Head or SENDCO?

@Midsummernightsdreaming, you have misunderstood @everychildmatters. She wasn’t talking about schools, regardless of whether they are academies, maintained, free, wholly independent, section 41 independent… she was talking about EOTAS/EOTIS.

But, again, provision in EHCPs is not written to fit the setting.

Prior to that it would be the LA, who decide which schools to send consultations out to, based on their own knowledge of various settings and the success of previous SEN students in those settings

In a non-section 41, the Head and SENCo upon receipt of a consultation from the LA. Based on section F of the EHCP, amongst other things. The real question ought to be 'who writes the EHCPs and although they're evidence-based, following an EP report etc, are they familiar with that particular setting and what that child's needs would be in that setting?'. Therein lies the rub.

No. LA's make the decision. See section 39 of the children and Families Act 2014. Schools must be consulted and can give a view, ultimately the decision is the LAs. Hence why when an appeal is lodged, the appeal is against LA decision and not the school.

How will she run out of time? There isn't a new EHCP, that's the whole problem. She needs new advice to support writing of a new EHCP which will actually meet her child's needs.

Asking for new EP advice first is not poor advice.

If the LA refuses and tries to issue a new EHCP (without seeking new EP advice) that names this mainstream she can appeal.

I do not work in statutory assessment for an LA, but I am a highly experienced EP and I know that my colleagues and myself do this kind of work as bread and butter casework under reassessment of ehcps day in day out and if assigned to me this case would be quickly sorted with updated advice and no need for parent to go to the expense and stress of tribunal to achieve that. If the LA is unhelpful re new EP advice, then threaten to appeal a new EHCP. What does the OP have to lose? I am not fobbing her off. It's my genuine opinion. She should have had fresh EP advice after year 5 review.

I have explained the types of cases that LAs try their luck in court on.
32 percent of registered appeals are conceded or withdrawn before they get to court.

@HollyBerryz in that post, I think that poster was meaning that wholly independent schools (which given their earlier posts is what I think they mean by non-section 41 schools, even though many non-section 41 schools are not wholly independent) cannot be named against their will. You need an offer of a place. So the school gets to decide if they think they are suitable (even though that’s not what Everychildmatters was asking. She was asking about EOTAS/EOTIS and inappropriate).

Also not entirely correct. Parents can name a parental preference school and the LA MUST consult with them.

@everychildmatters LAs make the decision. They can only offer eotas if no school is suitable (and if parents agree to it) see section 61 of the Child and Families Act 2014. Sometimes (well 99% of the time for those who appeal!) the decisions aren't made lawfully, in which case if challenged via Tribunal, Tribunal will make a decision on what's required/suitable.

Oh yes, I missed the non bit. Apologies!

@DrRuthGalloway the right of appeal following the annual review is time limited.

Personally, I wouldn’t bother formally requesting a reassessment of needs. There is no guarantee that will lead to the LA making a different decision and it potentially just wastes time. The OP has time to lose. If the LA is going to concede, they can do that without a reassessment of needs. OP should appeal and seek an independent assessment as part of that.

LAs make the decision based on costings. If they send a consultation out to a school, they have deemed that school suitable. The school can then decide whether or not they can meet need. The LA would not waste the Head and SENCO's time otherwise, as this would not bode well.

and if parents agree to it

Not quite. LAs must consult parents and parents cannot be forced to organise, deliver or facilitate provision, that includes they can’t forced to allow access to their home, but LAs can, if the legal threshold is met, arrange EOTAS/EOTIS even if the parents object. They are unlikely to, especially if parents pursue a proper package, but it can happen.

If they send a consultation out to a school, they have deemed that school suitable.

This is not always the case.

LA's won't know the costings until they send out a consult as the cost will depend on the provision in section F and what each individual school can already provide (or not provide). Part of the point of a consultation is to obtain costings, more so re independent schools but this can apply to other settings too. Not every child costs the same to educate.

I'm not sure what you mean by LAs wouldn't waste time? They send consults to settings all the time who can't meet needs if that's what you mean?

Consultations can be up to 120 pages long (EHCP, EP reports, SALT, OT etc). LAs know not to send these out to schools unless there is a very high chance that the school would accept the student and be able to meet need. A more scattergun approach would result in schools refusing to take students with EHCPs from that particular LA. A significant amount of SLT time is required to go through each of these in detail.

It isn’t uncommon for LAs to send consultations to completely unsuitable schools. Unless the school is wholly independent, the LA doesn’t need them to agree to being named. The LA can name them even if they object so the school can’t refuse to accept pupils from a particular LA.

This is not how it works any more, unless different LAs have different methods. We work with 3, which thankfully all work in the same way and don't waste our precious time. Maybe we're lucky.

They cannot do this with non-section 41 schools.

Perhaps you missed it but I said non-wholly independent schools.

Although to be precise, just because a school is a ‘non-section 41 school’ doesn’t mean it is wholly independent. There are non-section 41 schools that absolutely can be named against their will. For example, maintained schools are not section 41 schools and can be named even if they object. Another example of a type of non-wholly independent schools are non-maintained special schools. They can also be named against their will.

All LAs sometimes send consultations to completely unsuitable schools. This increases when the LA is trying to avoid paying expensive independent fees or avoid EOTAS/EOTIS.

What do you mean by that's not how it works anymore?

If you're a non section 41 school they probably send less plans because they don't want to pay out the ££££ when you say yes.

Or to be precise I said ‘Unless the school is wholly independent’.

I'm going to correct that and say non section 41 independent school 😂

Ok so costings are no longer done by simply 'tallying up' section F. It appears that we're all working with different LAs, which operate in different ways. That's not to diminish anyone's experience or advice on here, but simply to state that we all have different (apparently extensive) experience. There is a huge shortage of school places for children with EHCPs currently, as we all know, although again this may vary between regions and counties. Schools are under huge pressures to meet need for children with EHCPs and with limited resources, hence my previous comments about ensuring section F is appropriate to the desired setting. One thing which remains clear is that we all want to do our best to meet need for these incredibly vulnerable children and that occasionally the bureaucracy holds the process up. Thank you all for your different views - this has been insightful to hear others' experiences. OP good luck and hope your DD ends up in the best possible setting for her.

@DrRuthGalloway

Once an EHCP is finalised you must appeal within two months (or within one month of your mediation certificate, whichever is the latter). I assume there is a 'new' EHCP because OP said the LA have given her DD mainstream. Is there a final EHCP naming mainstream in section I @CornflakesCorn ?

It's poor advice because even if the LA agree to seek new EP advice (which they may not) it won't be a quick process. Ehcna's are running months and months past statutory deadlines due to a National shortage of EPs, why would they prioritise OP when there's no statutory deadline to meet for simply requesting updated EP advice? Then they have to write a new draft, consult OP, consult settings again, issue a new final. By the time all that is done OP will have missed her current appeal deadline and there's absolutely no guarantee the LA will change the setting named in section I anyway. In which case several months have gone by and then still has to appeal anyway. That's what she has to lose, months more of her child's education with no guarantee of the LA agreeing to a specialist setting at the end of it.

If the LA refuses and tries to issue a new EHCP (without seeking new EP advice) that names this mainstream she can appeal.

But they've already issued a new plan with out of date advice anyway by the sounds of it. OP can appeal now. What's the point in waiting? The LA can get the updated EP advice as part of the appeal process and resolve any outstanding issues at any time they choose too during the appeal process.

Tribunal doesn't have to cost anything. Most of mine haven't cost me a penny.

Mainstreams have also changed considerably over the past few years which is having a detrimental impact.
Teachers no longer have to be qualified, 1:1 support staff have been dramatically reduced, staff retention and recruitment crisis, budget cuts...the list goes on.

If it is a formal reassessment of needs, that has statutory timescales. Although LAs try to get away with breaching them and it still wouldn’t be the route I would go down.

And if it isn’t part of a formal reassessment of needs, that would be even more of a reason not to do go down that route because there wouldn’t be the right of appeal again after the reassessment but the LA is likely to string it out long enough to let the clock run down on OP’s right of appeal following the annual review.

Costs in independent schools have never just been about tallying up F. That isn’t what Holly said. There are the base fees to start with (which cover different things in different schools). Then things like transport costs. However, LAs are responsible for the provision in F and that includes ensuring that is sufficient funding.

The law is the same in all LAs. I support parents across the country, all LAs act unlawfully at times.