So Sixth Form isn't Year 6? A plea from the clueless...

[tharsheblows]

Argh, how does it all work? They go from year 6 to secondary school and then what? When does university start? What's this about Sixth Form schools and colleges? Do some go just to Sixth Form and some go to something higher? When are GCSEs? Do I put an apostrophe in the plural of GCSE or not? What is it all about? Could someone please please draw or link to a diagram?

Year 7 is the first year of secondary school. GCSE's are in year 10 6th Form is for year 11 and 12. University's normally only take students from 18 meaning after year 12.

year 7
year 8
year 9

then they do GCSEs in
year 10
year 11

then they do A Levels
year 12
year 13
some places call this college or a 6th form

then they go to university

no apostrophe

where are you from?!

Bugger, my maths is off. It's been a long time since I was at school. Ignore the above.
They leave after GCSE's in year 11 which makes them 16 or close to. 6th form is ages 17/18.

I give up and shall go back to the wine.

I'm from the US but have been here long enough to know better. But don't for some reason! It's all so complicated.

So GCSEs are different than A levels... I never knew that either and didn't realise I didn't know! And, just so I'm sure, the Sixth Form is Years 12 and 13?

Will all senior schools do years 12 and 13 or just some/most of them? Do I have to worry about this when looking at schools?

(Thank you both very very much! Hana, the timeline was perfect.)

Avenap, we cross-posted. Thanks for 6th Form clarification.

no - not all secondary schools will offer A Levels/have a 6th form. For example, none of the secondary schools in Richmond have a 6th form, there is a large 'college' instead that does all sorts of qualifications, not just A Levels.

I would say you def don't have to worry about this when choosing a secondary school - the young people change so much from Year 7 to 11.

How old are your kids?
(I am Cdn and it has taken me ages to sort all of this out! And also a secondary teacher )

Most schools do interviews etc for places in the sixth form for both their own students and students from other schools. Some students leave their school and go to sixth form college to do A levels, even if their school has a sixth form.

I wouldn't worry about sixth form until nearer the time TBH. Just look for a good school, close to home so that you will not have to be a taxi service, with reasonable GCSE results.

year 12 - AS levels
year 13 - A2.

My eldest son is 10, so starting the application process next year. He's very keen to get going on it and talks about it a lot so I've been googling schools. There are already open days for Sept 2009 starts!

High school (US stylee) is just so much easier to understand....

we used to have GCE (general certificate of education) O (ordinary) levels at 16 then A ( advanced) levels at 18. They brought in CSEs (certificate of secondary education) to cater for the less academically inclined pupils. Then they were combined to form a single age 16 exam the GCSE. A levels stayed approximately the same. At some point they also brought in the AS level, which IIRC used to be somewhere between and O level and A level, and is now better than an A level. I think.

Is that clear?

Ack! What are reasonable GCSE results? I'm not even going to ask more about A2s and ASs (that can't be right, what's the plural of AS?) because my brain will collapse.

Thanks again.

you want lots of As and Bs I would say

No Tissy - the AS is the 1st year of the a2 (A level) and counts towrads the final A2 result. Pupils can finish after yr 12 with an AS qualification or continue to yr13 and turn it inot an A2.

oh, and the percentages of students achieving these As and Bs
secondary schools aren't on my radar yet, dd1 is Year 1, am sure lots of people will tell you what to look out for. It's not always about results though, much like primary. well maybe a bit more.

No, no, that's not clear! Or maybe it is and my brain cloud is acting up. Oh, I'm too confused. I will read this again, take notes and revise in the morning.

Most subjects ask for a 'B' in order to continue with their subject although it will depend on the school

Back in the good old days, they had a different system of naming the years. I started secondary school in the Upper Third (what you youngsters call Y7).
The next year was Lower Fourth (Y8). Then Upper Fourth or UIV (Y9).
Then LV (Y10) and UV (Y11)
Hence we come to LVI and UVI: the sixth form (nothing to do with Y6).

The 'Sixth Form' thing is complicated. When I was at school (many years ago now!) the first year at secondary school was called the first year, during which you would normally turn 12, then 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th years followed, with O levels (now replaced by GCSEs) being taken in the fifth year. After that you could leave or go on to the 6th form, which was divided into the Lower Sixth (16-17) and Upper Sixth (17-18) and you would normally take your A levels in the Upper Sixth - there were no AS exams as there are now.

When schools started to count school years from primary level, the 'first year' became Year 7, 'second year' Year 8 etc - but many schools continued (and still do) to call the last 2 years 'the sixth form', while others call it Year 12 & Year 13. (And incidentally the sixth form college DD is at always refers to its students as being 'First Years' or 'Second Years')

In some areas all schools have their own sixth form, in some none do, and A levels are taken either at a Sixth Form College or at a college of further education. Some areas have a mixed system, with some schools ending after Year 11 & others having a sixth form.

To complicate matters further, you don't have to do A levels at all if you want to stay in education post-16 - you can do National vocational qualifications (NVQs) which are 'work-related, competence-based qualifications', or various other diplomas and qualifications.

Finally, I know of at least one institution that calls itself a University (Thames Valley University) which admits students from the age of 16 to do AS & A levels NVQs and various diplomas, certificates and Awards!

Hope this helps

tharsheblows,

you can't compare the education system here with the US - they are totally different.

As for years: GCSE would be equivalent to Freshman/Sophomore, and Sixth Form (A-levels) would be equivalent to Junior/Senior.

High School in the US is not easier to understand as a foreigner - the US school system was a nightmare to me - it made me quite school-phobic. We pretty much know what we were brought up in, and find it incredibly difficult to think there is another way of doing school.

If your son is 10, and moving up in the next year, the key thing is to think of the next 5 years (years 7 to 11 - roughly translating as sixth to tenth grades). Some schools will have a Sixth Form (Y12 and Y13), and some won't. If you are in an area where some schools do not have a Sixth Form, there will be a Sixth Form College nearby (a school that just has Y12 and Y13).

There are plusses and minuses to both routes, and even in Y7-Y13 schools, it is common to do a switch for A-level (I wouldn't necessarily advise this, but some kids feel the urge to have a change in order to prepare them more fully for university - a logic that I don't get).

Don't worry about A-levels at this stage.

Years 7-9 are the old Forms 1, 2, and 3 in secondary school. While in this stage they study the KS3 curriculum. In years 10 and 11 they do their GCSEs (Forms 4 and 6 as was). they then enter year 12, which most schools still call the lower sixth, following the old system. If they do well enough they can go into Year 13, or the upper sixth. During these two years they study for their A levels (AS in lower sixth A2 in upper sixth)

Sometimes schools have no provision for A level study and the kids go on to a sixth form collage.

After A level they can go on to University for further study.

We normally as for at least a B grade in GCSE science for them to go on to A level study, or a grade C with a teacher recommendation

DD moved from a school with a sixth form to her sixth form college for various reasons - the main one being that she wanted to do English Language as well as English Literature & her school didn't offer it, even as a combined Lit/Lang A level - her college has over 50 A level courses as opposed to around 30 at the school.
Secondly her school was a girls' only school & DD definitely prefers having boys around - especially as she is doing Psychology as well as English Language & both subjects include studies of gender influences.

Thirdly her college is a dedicated 6th form college & has around 1,000 students in each year & its whole ethos & structure is much closer to university than many schools sixth forms (especially the one she left)

Ok, so having slept and had coffee, I think I'm getting a handle on this. I am going to do what ScienceTeacher* suggested and worry about the next five years (year 7 to 11) now-ish then probably ask again in 5 years in the same panicked manner about years 12 and 13. You can make fun of me for doing it if you remember. It's good to know that people can change schools then, even if the school they attend has a Sixth Form.

The necessary grades in GCSEs to take A levels rings a bell. I read about it in Harry Potter and it makes a lot more sense now.

*of course the American system is easier! The states are easier to remember than the counties, too. Has nothing to do with the fact that I grew up with them and learned a little song listing them in alphabetical order. Alabama, Alaska, Arizona...

just make sure you don't move to Scotland in the next few years; it's completely different up here! We don't have GCSEs but standard grades, and no A levels but highers. Highers are different to A levels, I think- you take more of them at a lower level- makes you more roundly educated, I imagine, but you then have to spend an extra year at university to make up for it!

So more lowers make a higher or more highers are lower in standards? Just teasing, I think I'll just stay put and try to figure this system out.

The Fifty Nifty?