State primary vs Prep ahead of London 11+ consortium?

[CrownCoats]

Our daughter is currently in a state primary but we’re considering moving her to a prep for year 5 and 6 to better prepare her for the 11+ with a view to sending her to a central London independent for secondary. Her current state primary is fine, with much higher than national average results for SATS but I feel that she is not stretched because there aren’t the resources. She is in the top 2-3 kids in the class and consistently scores greater depth for reading, writing and maths. If she stays were she is, we will need to tutor her.

Would moving her to a prep school give her an advantage for the 11+? We have several local preps to choose from, and are considering Francis Holland as it seems to prep well for 11+ and would give her the option of staying locally for secondary.

Or should we just save our money for secondary fees? We’re by no means rich compared to local independent school families.

Generally, state schools have a lot less resources to prepare for independent school exams. But you can check thr exits of some state primary schools, which some do disclose. There are a few state primary schools in London with high number of children going to top independent schools in London. Academically these schools are not far from prep schools level and you can easily top up with tutoring and support from home

Tutoring in prep school can be rife for 11+. The good news for Francis Holland is if you can check it is an automatic entry to their senior school? Therefore senior school is guaranteed so taking 11+ is slightly less hectic.

Prep school kids usually do outside prep as well for 11+. I would stay where you are and get a tutor, plus Atom learning.

Yes, but a place in Francis Holland if it goes through to senior school means taking the 11+ plus tutoring/ home preparation without the added stress of no way to go at Year 7. Surely it would be the best of both worlds scenario?

Oh yea, if that is what the dc wants. I know my dc would have wanted to finish her time at primary with her school friends. And she did not mind the 11+ (although, I would not mind avoiding it if I can...even though I have survived it twice now.....one more to go!).

It’s not automatic entry to the secondary. The girls still have to sit the 11+ but I think they are a bit more generous with girls coming from the prep.

We joined a non selective prep midway through year 5 as our state primary deteriorated badly. We’ve just got offers and DC is holding 3 very competitive academic schools and our back up.

I’m confident we wouldn’t have achieved the same if we’d stayed where we were and tutored. He made lovely friends very quickly and it made a difference that all his friends were working towards 11+ which wouldn’t have been the case at his previous school. I had underestimated the difference in quality of teaching, level of insight and support offered by the school.

We did this. Moved to prep for year 5 and honestly it was a big waste of money. If I were you I'd get a few practice papers and use online platforms. Or use the money saved from prep to pay tutors. Schools admissions take into account criteria such as whether the child is coming from state or prep when marking. For the schools we wanted, 60% of the intake is from state primaries. DC didn't get the offers we wanted, so we tutored a little and got offers the following year. We could have done that in the first place and saved 30k 😫

We chose to keep both DC at state primary and successfully did the 11+ to independent schools and grammar from there. Of course, the school doesn’t prepare your DC or give you advice on where to aim for, but they’re also not surrounded by a lot of kids competing for the same things and comparing second round invitations and offers etc, so there is an advantage in that way.

Our DC had short days, a short commute and barely any homework, which left a lot of time for hobbies and play dates and of course 11+ preparation. From what I hear, prep schools have longer days and a lot more homework, so it’s harder to fit in other things.

It’s a balance, but if your DC is basically happy, just not stretched, then I would think twice about the stress and cost of moving at this stage.

I think I agree with the final poster that if things are going well then no need to up-end things and there’s quite a bit of risk if you do that. I’m quite evangelical as moving was such a good experience for us, but then again I’d lost confidence in our state school which perhaps makes the difference.

I’d also say horses for courses on prep schools. Ours is a pretty great fit for us - eg homework was/is fairly minimal and pretty optional. It’s very inclusive and not at all hothousey. The school day is an hour longer but DC is more engaged because the teaching is higher quality, there’s also more play time, lots more sport and enrichment.

Thats not universally true across prep schools that get good results. Lots of state schools are great but ours wasn’t.

Do school admissions take state school primary into account? I’ve never heard that before. I thought it was simply down to exam results, and maybe an interview.

Admissions told us they look at everything in cases where the child has performed well but there may be gaps in their knowledge. The London schools take from such a wide variety of backgrounds, with international students coming from places where the curriculum is different, so they expect variations and try to assess the whole child. Prep is a nicer environment, so my DC were happier from that point of view, but the teaching wasn't any better and they used the same CGP practice books we had already bought ourselves. Prep seemed to be useful for parents who wanted support making senior school choices, but if you already know what you're aiming for I don't think there's much value they can add.

Oh and as a PP said, prep parents tutor on top, as a result of which the prep schools get a good reputation for getting children into selective schools. But a lot if it is down to parental involvement and those same kids would probably have got in from state anyway.

Two of my friends who are headteachers told me not to make the move, that I'd be wasting my money, but I had a moment of self doubt which I bitterly regret.

Many schools want to take a certain percentage from state schools, and while almost all applicants will have been tutored to some degree (probably especially the prep applicants!) the state school applicants might not perform as well on the entrance exams. Many prep schools will spend a lot of school time on practice exams and exam strategy (and interview prep) whereas the state schools won't have this at all. The schools would take all of this into account. If your daughter is happy at her state school, I'd stay and spend your money on a good tutor. Ultimately, I don't think moving her would give you an advantage for admissions - though prep school would provide other experiences and opportunities that she might enjoy.

If you can afford it, it will help. State primaries don’t do the work that is in the 11+. You’d have to do everything at home, all the prep or else they won’t know the stuff in the papers. That makes for a very long day for a child.

Lots of state school parents do this - tutors, Atom learning etc after school. And lots of parents send to pre-prep AND do tutors, Atom learning etc.

As long as, of course, your DD is happy to move and it won’t make her miserable to say goodbye to her friends.

I asked one of the heads at a secondary school about the intake between state/prep or girls/boys and they said it ends up being roughly 50/50.

I think the schools know what to look for in a dc and they know prep school kids would be prepped a lot more than a state school dc.

From my experience, you don't need a prep to get into a good school. The prep school parents also prep their dc outside of schools. The ones that don't the dc do not get into schools. I have seen this happen....but same goes for state school. I have seen parents get their dc tutored for two years and their dc does not get in anywhere, but it is because they thought one hour a week was enough. It is not enough for most kids. You need to support on top and see where the gaps are.