11 plus tutoring year 4 or 5?

[CocoBean22]

When should we start?
I have a highly recommended tutor in mind and just wondering when we should start 11 plus tutor sessions?
Year 4 or Year 5 and why?
(Year 4 sessions would be fortnightly)
Thanks

Depends in part what school(s) you’re aiming for - grammar/ ultra-selective grammar/academically selective or ultra-selective indy?

Also relevant is how bright/capable your DC is compared with their peers, and how motivated they are to go to the school(s) in question and to study for and take the 11+.

We started after Easter in Y4 for academically selective indy, one 1:1 session a week. I wanted relatively slow and steady rather than risking a last minute panic/cram. That said, by the beginning of Y6 DS was really fed up with it all (pretty common according to our tutor). I had to resort to bribing him to get him through the last term.

I don’t think I’d do anything differently though.

Also, have you contacted the tutor to check their availability, ask what they’re recommend and then get them booked in?

Sorry for the ignorance but this is all new to me what is the super selective etc? Where can I find this info?

This depends on many factors.

How well your child’s school prepares them / teaches them (or not).
How naturally bright your child is.
How competitive it is to get into your chosen school(s).
Your child’s attitude to tutoring - are they fairly happy to do it - or is it going to be a battle.

Well the starting point is:

• where do you live (assuming you want a local/commutable school rather than boarding)?
• why do you want to do 11+?
• what are you looking for in a school?

Once you have some answers to these questions you can start considering specific schools and researching them to see if they provide what you’re after, including people on these boards giving advice. It’s quite difficult to give advice in the abstract.

To answer your specific question - some schools are extremely competitive/academically challenging to get into and students will achieve the highest GCSE and A Level results. Typically only the most capable and driven children have a chance of getting high enough marks in the admissions tests to get in.

Tutor here. You need to start in year 4 as there's a lot of material to get through that's not in the primary curriculum plus exam technique.
Be prepared to do homework from the tutor too.

I should have said: the reason this is relevant is because the amount of preparation needed for 11+ will vary considerably depending on the school and the child.

If you are aiming for a “gently selective” (ie not very selective) independent then a reasonably capable child may not need huge amounts of preparation beyond some familiarisation/test practice. If this includes verbal and non verbal reasoning then they’ll need a bit more assuming they’re currently at state school as these subjects aren’t covered at all.

If you’re aiming for one of the most competitive schools - eg St Paul’s or a super-selective grammar such as Queen Elizabeth Barnett then even the brightest child is likely to need a lot of practice and preparation with a big focus on exam technique as well as the subjects being tested.

Like others have said, it depends where you are.

When I was at school, I was in a grammar school area. Everyone did the 12+ (we left primary in year 8 in that area). There were, ans still are 6 or 7 grammar schools in the local area. The 12+ exams were held at our primary schools, we did the prep work in school, the mock exams. No one had tutoring as it was just our normal.

Where I live now, the closest grammars are is 30/45/60 mins away. No one in my dds school takes the 11+. We eneded up having to live in a really deprived area, the schools are shit. Not due to the staff, but the social demographic of the area.

My dd sat the 11+ last sept. She was the first one to do it in her school that they know of. Thank christ she got an amazing score as the secondary schools here are dire. She will definitely get into the grammar school we've put first due to her score.

The 11+ tutoring started in year 4. Only because, from my experience of 12+, what dd was being taught in her school was so far removed from what the 11+ questions are like, while she's a bright child, she wouldn't have had a clue of how to do them if she hadn't been shown.

Sorry, I meant we started secondary in year 8 in that area, hence doing 12+ exam.

Our local superselectives are more competitive than Oxbridge! Seems like it anyway 🤔

We didn’t bother as we knew dd didn’t have the right temperament to sit doing extra homework. I think if I had started sooner when she was young and more malleable it might have been easier!

So friends all started their kids’ tutoring in Y4. That way you can ease off if they are doing really well.

Someone we knew added Saturday tutor groups too, in y5. Literally their kid did nothing else - no play dates, no sleepovers, only one sports club for 30 mins after school once a week. So sad! Don’t do that, obviously.

Oh and if you have time: teach your kid to play chess with you (NOT on a computer), logic puzzles, sudoku, crosswords, complex jigsaws, adult scrabble, card games, more difficult strategy board games like Santini, read widely and talk about books.

All good ways of getting brain juices flowing without feeling like hard work.

Looking for 11+ tutor in the West Midlands. 1-1 tuition only please.

We didn't start our naturally very bright child till yr5 and her tutor who pre-selects only taking kids already working at a higher level and only for 1 year, with a lot of work over that year. We did do stretch work at home before as school work was too easy.

For our other child who isn't as academic we might start with a different easier going tutor from yr4 to give her a chance but at a more relaxed pace with more time for her to build her skills.

@Jackie26 that's not really the place to ask. People will just reply to the original question on this thread (which is from three months ago and not specific to the West Midlands.)

I recommend you start your own post, and please mention 11+ and West Midlands in the title.

Having said that, people are not allowed to advertise on Mumsnet, so if anyone responds to your question with specific tutor recommendations they will get reported and removed.

Like others have said, depends where you live. Sone places you need to be the best out of 10,000 other children, other places in the top 2,500 will do.

but. I would say. If you have to do MORE with your child, than others to get in, the chances are grammar school will not be a good choice.

my girls are both at grammar, they work FAST! But in each of their classes, are one or two children who cannot keep up at all. They were clearly tutored to the hilt to pass. I know one of these kids, their confidence has been shot to pieces.

My DD was tutored from yr5. One and a half hours once a week with a bit of homework.
She got in and has found the workload and pace just fine. Competitive grammar but not super selective.

I home prepared my DS for superselective grammar this last academic year, precisely because all the local tutors fill up in September and insist on 2 years of tutoring. We started at the end of Year 5 and he got in. I know his strengths and weaknesses and we just focussed on weaknesses and tailored stuff to the schools we targeted and he got in, first round. He was exceeding at school and is bright and focussed. I have witnessed people tutoring more average kids for years for the very selective grammar schools and it rarely works.

Is this for a state grammar school with catchment area? A state grammar school without catchment area (super selective), so people can apply from far and wide = wider pool and more competition or is this a private school?

A state grammar school without catchment area (super selective) is hardest

State grammar school with catchment area ok if pure grammar area where top 20% of kids get pooled into grammar. Difficult when it's the only grammar far and wide and loads of people apply.

Private school, least competitive unless it's for one of the public school. City of London School, St Paul's School etc.

Is your child super bright? So are they the top kid or among the top 5-7 in a class?

Which school and which area and we can advise. Year 4 is early imo but then I wouldn't like to sign up an average child to the most competitive schools.

Go through some workbooks to warm your child up during year 4 - if that's still called tutoring (I guess it is a form of home tutoring). CGP, Bond, anything would do, they're all good. Key is to do it diligently. If you do, you'll have done several books and would have covered a lot of English, Maths, VR and NVR.
From year 5 I would continue this, but additionally suggest to find an experienced tutor who could help beyond the workbook type of work (creative writing, past papers, timed mocks and some counselling for parents on school choices as well as to get a gut feel of how well DCs are performing compared to their peers).
If you're in a private school, you'd already have some good sense of performance with the CAT scores or the likes provided to you in the school report and teacher feedback. If in state school, I would really suggest getting someone experienced/professional from year 5, who could realistically tell you how well your child is doing in the world of 11+ and the schools to target.
This way, you're not scramming and the child will feel confident and less pressured. We had great success doing this with our child, who had offers from top independent schools in and around London, and the super-selective grammar school near to us.

Started y4 but useless tutor. More focus y5. Then I took over since I knew my child better than any tutor. She got academic scholarships to top London academic schools. We had fun too. I knew DC was super academic so wanted to support her, so ensured she had all her maths covered, worked on creative writing, etc. I’m a researcher, so I researched what was needed.

Felt as though the tutoring was a bit of a ruse (we tried several, inc one who just got dc to do a past paper each lesson, charging £70 for the privilege!). But I know I took a risk doing it all myself. So that’s my experience, in case it gives another perspective.

@lililililililili what books would you recommend? We are currently in Y4 independent and the schools we are aiming for are in the NL Consortium (Atom learning) plus CSLG. I am conscious i dont want to overpressure but there are so many books out there. School seems to use some CGP books. I do Bond tests at home for 9 to 10. Should i be getting CGP texts and teaching first? I just dont know where to start

@Loopylooni we did the Bond assessment papers (all four subjects) that I purchased online or Costco in bundles. think we did from 9-10. Once that was done I would recommend doing the 10 minute type tests (any publisher) as supplement only, they're really just for checking quickly. CGP books (something like the targeted question books) are good to introduce kids to the topics too, they seemed slightly easier. Before going into year 6, I think we completed the 10-11 as well. You should have plenty of time unless your child is super busy with clubs and activities - if not, maybe do two assessment papers during the weekend and do the 10 minute tests during the week.
I didn't need to 'teach' my DD, just went through anything she got wrong and made sure to review together. If your child is in an independent school she would already be working around a year ahead so shouldn't be too difficult to do that. She reads a lot too, which was only a good thing.
For Maths, the Mental Arithmetic series from Schofield and Sims is good. By the exam time, cover book 5 at minimum with good confidence.
DD did the London consortium too (not sure if the 'North' one is a different one) as she applied to G&L. She also did CLSG and had offers from them both though didn't end up going there!