London grammar and private senior school entry 2025 part 2

[CruCru]

Here is the new thread for when part 1 is full.

This is actually aligned with much of what I meant when I said SPGS attracts a lot of parents who are focused on the prestige. This inevitably leads to an ambitious and rather competitive set of parents and girls. The pressure doesn’t come from the school itself and in fact we liked much of what we saw of the school and the staff on touring it. I have no doubt that the school is trying to dissipate anxiety and competition at that school but they are pushing water uphill when the girls/parents are so results focused and parents are compiling lists of which children made the maths Olympiad etc- just as one example. The fact that the school has to send these emails actually rings alarm bells to me.

It is important to observe the parent and child cohort to see if you find many like minded and similar people. This will surely increase the chances of you child making good friends and then having a happy time at school.

Just because pressure at SPGS is ‘entirely generated’ by the girls doesn’t mean it isn’t intense and isn’t extremely powerful. Take a bunch of girls who’ve been used to be top performing and probably identify wholly with their ability to achieve academic success and put them through three rounds of recruitment and add to that a hefty termly fee … and half of these are now below the average at this legendary school. The pressure these girls put themselves under to succeed on the terms they themselves respect is phenomenal. The amount of time staff spend trying to unpick perfectionist attitudes which are hardwired from childhood is nothing to be proud of, it’s a dissipation of professional potential and a Herculean task. An exceptional school, there’s nothing like it if you thrive (and probably the majority do) but if it doesn’t work for you it can break you. I write from first hand experience.

The only opinion you offered on G&L was that it usually got those girls who didn’t get SPGS. I was merely trying to give more colour on the school by pointing out that for many people G&L is their first choice and many girls there didn’t even apply to SPGS. It isn’t therefore a “no-brainer” to choose SPGS over it. They are quite different schools in many ways.

We sadly have first-hand experience too, @BruceFoxton And your observations are spot-on. We are less inclined to send our second DD to SPGS there as a result. It was great for her for the first few years, but the ‘intensity’ got the better of my first DD by her mid-teens in year 11 and the outcome was so incredibly sad for us to witness as a family.

It does suit some girls, but my perspective is that you just don’t know what kind of teen your DC will turn out to be aged 10 or 11 years. So for us, it just isn’t worth the ‘risk’ with our second DD.

This is good to hear. I have heard a couple of horror stories about pressure from schools to eg get all 9s at GCSE and I absolutely know that kind of environment would have been awful for my daughter.

@BruceFoxton yes, I have first hand experience too but don't seem to have experienced what you have. I suppose schools feel different to every single child who passes through their doors to some extent.

By the way, whilst I do thing that it’s possible to have an issue with teen mental health at any of these top schools, I do think there is something particular about SPGS, and the girls and parents that it attracts that exacerbates the issue more than at other places. I think it’s the badge / brand / pressure that is attached to being the most ‘academic’ school in the country coupled with being girls-only. DS is at a super-selective boys’ grammar school and it isn’t as much of an issue .

Hi - can I ask why the move away from GCSEs has meant you are not looking at LUS? Thank you!

I think pressure almost always comes from a certain type of parents and maybe there are more of those at SPGS- certainly it seems to attract quite a few who think that the school is the be all and end all but I'm sure there are lots more normal ones there as well. There will be a few of them at all schools though.
I was reading a thread where lots of parents were complaining at length about a prep school, not getting enough girls into SPGS, rubbish teachers etc and one of the complaints was that in y6 the girls went to sing at an old peoples home and that they helped hand out Christmas cards to younger pupils. They said it was a waste of time and they should be preparing for 11plus. I thought this was quite sad!

I remember going to look at the St Paul's School (for boys) and asking about this - the boys who go there are used to being top of the pack at their prep schools and then many (most?) get a shock when they are then middle of the pack (or bottom in some things). They said that nearly all boys find that they are one of the top ones in some things and middle / bottom in others and that it has to be made normal to not always be the absolute best at everything (even those nowhere near the top are still very high performing).

The comments about SPGS are interesting. We didn't apply for it because they now have a rule that they won't look at any girl who has a journey time door to door of more than 50 minutes (we were about 52 on Citymapper - which is a bit too long for an eleven year old). I expect that the SLT are trying to dial down on the intensity a bit.

We are deciding between LU and G&L. I'm also interested in why the move away from GCSEs is perceived as a negative. The theory of this really appeals to me although there is a bit of a worry about the execution, given this will only be the second cohort. However I think the school really seems to have carried out comprehensive engagement with unis and employers who seem very supportive so it's not obvious where the risk is. I do see it overall as a strong USP of LU and it's one of the reasons why I'm tending to it vs G&L.

Does anyone know if any of the 'everyone invited' culture remains at LU and if there is any culture of boys being unpleasant to girls?

We dont feel to risk with the approach in the end and it has been our main concern throughout the process. So far the info we received isnt good enough. GCSE has an external board and peers results to compare with, the school own evaluation is not comparable in our view. Its a personal choice, the school might prove us wrong in few years however we dont feel comfortable to go with the risk.

We went DC over Alleyns a few years ago and haven't yet regretted it. Miss Joe Spence but the facilities are amazing and all the boys we know seem to be thoughtful well rounded types. DS is a geeky non sporty kid, and he's found his tribe. Alleyns was a bit smaller and a bit cliquier, we felt, but we have lots of friends with kids there of both sexes who love it. Plus we didn't really want to move DS at 11.

@Dallasdays with regard to everyone invited culture, it was not there during my elder daughter time who moved recently. She had the most amazing time making many close friends both boys and girls and this is exactly what we want(from co-ed).

Interesting about SPGS and we indeed noticed so many more girls invited to interview and 2nd stage were SE Asia. Same concern about grammar school too that majority is South Asia years back when we had grammar school choice for our elder daughter. We’d like mixed, girls and boys, as diverse as possible

Hi everyone, I want to ask for similar insights about what are the strengths and atmosphere of various London private schools. We are choosing between NLCS, SPGS, City Girls and G&L. If anyone has any insights particularly on pastoral care, please share.

I also really like the theory behind LU’s move away from GCSE’s. I just think there is always the risk being in the first few year groups of such a bold move. It could work out great (and I hope it does). For us, I think another school is a better fit anyway, but if LU was our first choice I would personally be quite nervous about what to do. I know other people who are 100% behind the change though.

Thanks @11plus2nd. Interesting that you are thinking of KGS. My older DS is there. It's a lovely school although from what I have seen of LU so far, it seems a cut above. KGS is a very kind and well-organised school, but I haven't been overly impressed by the co-curricular offering. And I think I the focus on hockey is excessive, and the facilities aren't as good as LU (rowing, pool on site etc).

I didn't know about the SPGS 50-min rule. It's a great idea! I wish all schools had it to protect kids from horribly long commutes (where their parents won't).

@Dallasdays everyones invited has not been a thing for my dds. Most coed schools were implicated, LU just happened to be one of the first on the list door extra attention. The school dealt with VERY thoroughly I was impressed

From memory, the High Mistress said that the sports teams sometimes have training at 7:30am so girls with a mad commute can’t take part.

It does seem a sensible idea. And they probably aren’t short of applicants, even with the journey restriction.

I agree with this @11plus2nd , felt we had to sit LU as a local school but there is a lot of uncertainty. Knowing siblings at both LU and KGS, academically the feedback from parents is that LU is at a much higher level, so this might also be something to take into account as your DD sounds like she would enjoy the most academically challenged environment.

Thanks so much, one of the main reasons we might not go with grammar school even if there is a choice or SPGS is because we dont want academic pressure. It didnt feel pressurised at all in LUS which was fantastic and academically my elder daughter was thriving from it (she was very successful when she left) so less academic isnt a problem. My main problem with KGS is travelling including boat house isnt on site and further out from where we live.

Indeed, decision time, none is best.

@TwoInARow2020 sorry delayed response but we are considering Thomas’s College too, but for an older child (who is thinking of moving from another school). We liked what we saw and are giving it very serious consideration but we feel rather in the dark not having even set foot inside the Putney Vale site - so have absolutely no sense of the atmosphere, what the kids are like, behaviour etc etc. A bit stuck as are keen to move our child and this ticks a lot of boxes in terms of location, co-ed, size etc.

Been looking for a reason to finally unsubscribe from mumsnet and here it is!

Did you put this into the wrong thread?

I can understand if the subject of getting children into London private and grammar schools isn’t interesting or relevant to you but we are a pretty amiable bunch.