Grammar school...

[CocoBean22]

So DD is 7 and in Year 3, early I know so I hadn't thought about secondary schools until head teacher said it's never too early to think about it and plan.

So DS said 'I really want to go to xxxxx Grammar school' a local grammar to us in catchment, and very very good reviews.

So far as we stand in year 3, DS is bright, listens and enjoys work. Is higher than he should be at maths and phonics currently, BUT I've heard a lot of horror stories about getting into and staying at grammar school

I've heard it's hard, hard to get in, and hard work when you're there.

He's bright but not a genius!!

So is grammar saved for the kids of doctors and lawyers etc?
I feel so overwhelmed with the fact he wants to take his 11 plus when the time comes but how can I judge if he will stand a chance at getting into grammar?

Should I be doing anything now in year3?

Any help or advice greatly appreciated x

In my opinion year 3 is too early to do anything.
Also, not all children at grammar schools have doctor/lawyer parents, so don't let that put you off.

Depending on area, some grammar schools are super selective, and you'll find most parents will use tutors. However, at year 3 I think it's too early to worry about all that is it yet :)

I'd say do not over tutor your son. I've seen kids being coached to pass 11+ and get in to grammar and find they carry on with their tutors because they can't keep up.

At this stage I'd say encourage him to read a variety of books, use maths in everyday activities. Don't make it all about academics but let him be interested in maths and English.

Preparing from year 5 will be more than enough.

As pp says there are normal grammars and super selectives. For the latter, there will be kids that were top of class/year at their primary and travel from afar. It's a totally different ball game

Don't focus on the grammar, focus on widening his education generally. So, lots of reading, research and chat about the topics he is covering in class. Talk about the news and current affairs. Music, chess, as well as sport etc.

In the background, you can then look at all of the local secondaries and work out their admission criteria. Look at specific entry stuff in year 5.

The best thing you do is talk to parents in your primary school, most people have older kids and happy to advise you .

if it is normal grammar then start year 5
but if it is super selective grammar then year 4.
as the kid will sit the test in September/October beginning of year 6 but the test will cover all of year 6( so that why people tutor to cover all of year 6 content), this is for super selective one .

If you're willing to mention the area you live in, or even the specific grammar school, it will help people to advise. They are not all equal.

Regardless, I'd agree with others that have said that Y3 is too soon to do any specific preparation. However, there are things you can be doing at home in your day-to-day life that will help your son to thrive at school, which stand him in good stead if you do decide that he will take the 11 plus.

For me, the main thing is reading. Read with him every day (or very nearly every day) - take it in turns to read. When you're reading, model good reading - expressive, showing an understanding of the text, and perhaps using different voices/accents for the different characters in any dialogue. Ham it up, and encourage him to do the same. Laugh at the funny bits.

When he is reading, make sure it is 100% accurate. Go back over any guessed words. If he is rushing through and might miss a word or add a word as he is guessing the meaning, ask him to repeat. It is so important that reading is accurate. You can even add some deliberate mistakes when you're reading, so he can correct you!

Also, develop his vocabulary. If there is any new word (or even a word he thinks he knows) ask him to explain exactly what it means. Then tell him what you think it means. Then look it up in the dictionary (and old-fashioned paper one, if possible) and see if he/you were right. Then suggest alternative words/phrases the author might have used, then look the word up in a thesaurus and see if there are more alternatives available. Then try to decide why the author chose this word rather than the other alternatives.

For comprehension and inference, ask him what is going on, how a passage made him feel, what might happen next. Enjoy the 'guessing' games. Discuss whether he is enjoying a book, and why. Spot differences between writing styles between authors.

At this age, the 'quality' of the books probably doesn't matter too much. The school book might be suitable, or whatever he is into. But do try to vary it a bit. Perhaps some non-fiction and poetry sometimes, and a range of authors.

This might all sound like a lot of work, but if you can be enthusiastic about it, it can be really fun - and it is so much more valuable than working through flashcards and endless comprehension pieces in a panic in Y5 to prepare for the 11 plus. He will find this part of the 11 plus easy if he has done 'intelligent' reading throughout primary.

Others can advise better than I can about maths, but the same principle stands - if you can include some maths in everyday life, it will really help.

Like other posters above I’d ask if it was a ‘normal’ grammar.

I’ve got 3 DC. The youngest is 8, the other two have been/are at the closest grammar, not a super selective.

With DC1 I didn’t get him a tutor. We just did a couple of the bond books in the 6m beforehand.

With DC2 I did send him to the village tutor in y5. I had DC3 as toddler by then and a DH who worked long hours and so it was easier to outsource the support he needed rather than try and struggle to do it with a young toddler constantly interrupting.

Both of the older DC were bright, top sets in everything at primary, but not super geniuses or anything. DC1 was much better at verbal reasoning/english, and DC2 was stronger in maths.

With our grammar system it’s a flat rate pass mark- it doesn’t matter whether you just get the magic 121 score or 150, once you’ve passed you’re on equal terms. As a comparison on the value of tutoring, DC1 got 125 and DC2 133.

DC3 is in y4. He’s in the top sets but his strength lies in maths where he is very ahead, but his English (writing) skills aren’t as good. He thinks maths is great, and does it for fun… but writing is ‘boring’.

We are just doing what @LetItGoToRuin suggests, lots and lots of reading (which he does really enjoy), and talking about what we’re reading- what do you think is going to happen? Why do you think x character has said that? What do you think they’re thinking? How can you tell?

We may look at sending him to the village tutor next year, mainly to help him with the English/written parts of the test. If it was just maths based I’d be confident that we could just manage with practice at home.

I wouldn’t put any pressure on things yet, and certainly not anything formal. I’d ask her teacher at the next parents evening whether she thinks she’d be a good candidate and where she is for both maths and English.

The one thing I will say, is that unlike some people I don’t think it’s fair to send them to the exam completely blind. The questions are phrased differently to what they do at school, and the maths content at least is ahead of what they will have covered in class. I think that it’s only fair that you expose them to practice papers/work books for VR/NVR as they just don’t do that sort of thing in school and they need to get a feel for them/learn how to tackle the questions in advance. But, personally, I think that’s very different from drilling them for years in advance (as some people seem to assume/comment that if they’ve had tutoring etc then they aren’t bright enough to be there)

Good luck

It is never too early to think about secondary education. However I would avoid tutoring in Yr3, the very earliest imo should be the 2nd term of Yr5. It will be a long long slog otherwise, not just for your child but for yourself and the family. Personally I think you would be able to assess whether ‘grammar’ school would be a good fit from Yr4.
However the school which your DCs are aiming for - be it selective or super selective - will be the biggest determinant. The super selective system has changed indefinitely over the last couple of years and children who would have gotten in 5years ago could really struggle today.

A good starting point would be their reading level - encouraging them to read out loud, you can get a pretty good idea if they are comprehending the text through their expression and tone. Then looking at their end of year assessments for both written english and maths. Generally exceeding in both would be the best for a super selective and exceeding in one and at the expected level for the other should be more than enough for a selective grammar school.

When do live? There’s a huge different for grammars where eg the top 25 % get in and super selective ones where it’s huge hothousing.

And if the latter then kids will already be tutoring, certainly by year 4 and you’ll be needing to get on tutor waiting lists.

My daughter has recently moved schools to an all girls school in Yr 8 and the form and friendship group won’t include her despite her trying so hard to fit in. They have a group chat she is only one not part of and they all go out together but don’t include her. They have done other things making her feel totally alone and she is so sad - I just don’t know how to help her as she won’t let me talk to the school and thinks if she talks to the girls it will make it worse. Any advice gratefully received x

@AlfaRomeo you will get more responses starting your own thread as it's a different subject. I hope your daughter is ok.

Thank you sorry I thought I had as not used this before x

Year 3 is probably too early to start tutoring but I know plenty of tutors who take bookings for Year 5 tutoring from Year 3. Depends where you are and how competitive it is.

I went to a grammar - first in family. Parents were not doctors and lawyers. I am now.

All my kids went to gs. You need yo research what the 11+, in your area entails. Here, for example, there is only verbal reasoning and non-verbal reasoning.