11+ turning down top-tier school

[luludzing]

I'm looking for opinions on my daughter's school choices. Would you consider turning down a top-tier school for one that ranks lower in league tables but excels in other important areas? This school has been improving year by year in rankings, but it’s not yet regarded as highly academic.

I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences from parents who have faced a similar decision!

Go for the school that is the best fit for YOUR child and their strengths and interests.

League tables are a very blunt tool.

@luludzing curious which schools you are referring to? In the end for our dd we were debating between G&L and Putney. She preferred G&L, by dh Putney. I was neutral. We decided to let her decide since she was the one who would be going and it's not like it was a decision between a good and bad school, both schools are great. I think it depends on other factors as well. If the tier 1 school was an hour or more away and the tier 2 school close by, I would go for the tier 2 and guide dd that way. In our case travel was about the same give or take 10 minutes.

Check results in details and leavers destinations. We noted top schools, only top set Maths gets to do further Maths, others all with 7 predicted to give a go at lessons and homeworks and based decisions on that and not just to make league tables outcome. Some schools ask students to do PPE as in chance for Oxford but DC interest was Physics but not Oxbridge level but RG. Others schools have diverse leavers destination and courses. This depends on your child and which school fits.

That is rather nuanced but one key point is that “lower in league tables” doesn’t by itself necessarily mean much in terms of academic outcomes for your child. Often the differences between schools are quite small and some schools are not above massaging results to stay high in tables. I would not let perceived prestige drive a decision.

I would also bear in mind travel time. If the “better” school is a longer commute that adds up too. an acquaintance lived a short walk from a very good academic school but got a place at a higher prestige school (higher in league tables) which would be an extra 1 hour 40 commuting per day and personally I thought they were bonkers to accept the higher prestige school.

This!

League tables won't show you which school is right for your child. I knew which schools wouldn't suit DS2 regardless of what their league position was. He had offered from 2 arguably "better" schools which simply wouldn't have been right for his personality.

I would look very carefully at what the less academic school can do for a very academic child.

We had this exact decision to make for our DD. In the end, we plumped for the less academic school - 10 mins away, instead of 30, lots of friends going there, cosy, relaxed vibe.

It was a mistake. She was bored to (actual) tears - the teaching was aimed at the average kid and she was so far above this it was painful. She started to coast - no need to push for 8s and 9s in tests and homework because teachers were happy with 6s and 7s. The school weren't really interested in academic competitions (DD loves a maths comp).

We ended up moving her to the more academic school in Year 9. It's not perfect - she's still an outlier in some areas - but for most subjects they are tightly set and the top set moves at a pace that suits her. She is pulled up (gently) if her grades drop below a 9 in anything and the Head of Maths is giving her extra work to train for maths challenges/olympiads etc.

It may not be the same for your DD of course, but our experience of a very bright kid in a not-very-academic school was not good.

Pick the school that’s right for your child. I’ve had four go through the grammar system. It only suited two. The other two I pulled out at different points. There is no right and wrong.
And of course all decisions are always up for review, don’t assume a school which fits a child at age 11 will still fit at age 16 onwards …….

‘Excels in other important areas’ is a bit vague. If it’s something that’s verifiable - some of the most awful places I’ve worked have had all sorts of awards for championing staff welfare - then I’d say it’s about how relevant that is for your DD. If the school has a really strong reputation for sports and your DD is very sporty or if they have a good support for dyslexic students and your DD has dyslexia then it’s worth considering. If it’s something harder to pin down like ‘good pastoral support’ then I don’t know.

Definitely depends what your kid needs. We chose the less highly ranked school for our DC because the cut and thrust of the top school would have been too much for him, even though he is academic.

Really depends on what you mean - if it’s the difference between say a City Girls vs and Francis Holland RP then definitely go with what suits your daughter in respect of the overall fit for your daughter. Jump from perceived tier 1 to tier 2 at top performing schools shouldn’t make a difference if your child is academically motivated.

If it’s a City vs a school that gets say 60% 7-9 GCSEs then I’d continue to go with the more academic school as the much less academic won’t be the right fit.

FWIW our prep school suggested some tier 1 schools for our child and we ended up not even applying. They are bright, but are not academically motivated, so applied for tier 2 and below schools which we felt would support her best.

Of course you should take account of other factors such as journey time, extra curriculars, facilities, GCSE/A level/IB options, ethos and feel.

From a purely academic perspective I would make three points:

1. I’m not sure what gap you are talking about but the difference in results between a school that is 10th in the tables and a school that is say 30th or 40th is really not big, even if they look a long way apart on a table, it’s down to a few marks here or there and may change year on year. These would both be academic schools.

Also bear in mind some schools massage their results - eg managing out less performing kids or making them take exams privately so they are not on the official school results. And some schools massage in a more acceptable way eg by taking 9 GCSEs or 3 A levels when similar schools take 10 and 4.

Don’t get too hung up on table position.

2. Sometimes, a school that is lower in the tables, but is aiming to improve its academic results, will actually push your child harder than the more academically established one. The lower down school is making its name and knows it has a more mixed intake, so has to be more on top of it, whereas the higher up one may assume its intake are naturally self motivated and take a more relaxed approach (bit of a disaster if your kid isn’t self motivated!). This definitely seemed to be the case for two schools we were choosing between.

3. Psychologically some able children perform best when they are surrounded by very able kids and will push themselves to meet that standard. However some of these get demotivated if they find themselves towards the bottom or even just average in their school. Conversely some bright children will stop bothering if the average in their school is lower (as a pp describes) - but others will relish the chance to shine. You have to consider your child’s personality.

If your child is super academic and is likely to thrive in a competitive environment, then I would pick the top tier school. If they are bright, and enjoy learning, but are unlikely to be at the top of a very selective school, I would consider the impact on their self-esteem and motivation. This happened to me at secondary school and I think I would have been happier elsewhere. Some children thrive being a big fish in a smaller pond, others are the opposite.

We have applied to the less academic schools for our DD because we feel that she would be much happier near the top of one of these schools than at the bottom of a top-tier. And that's just the academics. It's also worth considering the ethos of the school and what feels right for your child and your family. Good luck!

What do you mean by 'top tier'?

Are you referring to the tuition fee level? The facilities offered? Or is it the academic outcomes, which might be more related to the selection process of the intake rather than the school's input? It's really just statistics.

Every child has their own top tier.

Is your kid likely to do well wherever? Or do they need loads of support?

Are they OK with high levels of pressure? Will that spur them on?

My youngest is v bright but is a huge perfectionist so we knew that putting her anywhere selective was a recipe for disaster for her mental health and confidence.

Shes performing brilliantly in a non selective and is among the top students in her year as that pressure isn’t there.

League tables aren’t about one child. They are a guide but aren’t the whole picture. Go for the one that feels right, not what their marketing tells you

Good point. I think most people when saying top tier means the higher ranked school (perhaps the top ten?). But you are right, every child/parent will have their own thoughts on what is considered a top school for their dc.

Yes, absolutely. This was a decision we made at 4plus so a bit different but my DD got offers from an extremely highly regarded school that people would walk over broken glass to get their child into, and a good but not as stellar school with fewer facilities etc.

We still chose the second. The second school was a far better fit for her. More nurturing, less pushy, far less ostentatious wealth and with a real emphasis on individuality rather than turning out high achieving robots. We have never regretted our decision and our DD is thriving.

All that said, we will re-assess the position when DD is 10, because that sort of pushy school does suit some children. Maybe it will suit her which is not something we could know at age 4. Because the real issue is ensuring it is a good fit for your child. The great results will only follow if the child is happy and suited to the environment and teaching methods. And that may well mean turning down the more prestigious and (on paper) higher achieving school.

Absolutely I would!
A high ranking school with top academic outcomes would be an absolutely miserable environment for many bright and able children. Some will thrive there but not all. Find the school that feels right without worrying about rankings. Your child will be a data point of 1 in the statistics calculated the year after she leaves but her school experience is about so much more than that.