Can a school make Religious Studies GCSE compulsory? Can one withdraw?

[ParentOfOne]

One of the state, non-faith secondary schools we like makes GCSE in Religious Studies compulsory. This is in England.

It is not a deal breaker, but we would like to understand what the rules are.

At the open day, the school said that it's a national requirement. But that's not what the gov uk website says https://www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/key-stage-3-and-4 , and indeed not all schools even offer RS GCSE. So did the school just lie to us? Not a great sign!

So the question becomes: can a school make RS GCSE compulsory, or can parents object?

I am all for kids learning about religions, but my reservations are:

• It may be more useful to take other subjects at GCSE; it is still possible to study RS in earlier years without using up a GCSE subject for it
• No one can know if our child will grow up to be religious or not, but she is the kind of person who brooks no bullshit. The teaching of RS can be dogmatic in some schools.
• It is fine to study other cultures and religious theories and preferences, but we should also call out what is backward and scientifically unfounded - e.g. when the Catholic Church said that the HIV virus can still pass through condoms, or when some fundamentalists think that evolution is wrong.
• My concern is therefore twofold: I worry that some of this nonsense might be taught as valid, rather than as un unsubstantiated theory, and I worry that, with her attitude, she would react very badly to the teaching of this nonsense. These concerns are based on the experiences of some friends, in non-faith state schools elsewhere.

Are you in Ealing?

At the 'other' secondary in our town, they (or at least used to) provide an easy withdraw option on the gcse options form signed by parents.

The options a school does this year may be totally different from how they do things in 3 or 4 years time.

@ParentOfOne have a look at this paper for the AQA short course GCSE. It will give you a flavour: https://filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/rs/AQA-80615-SQP.PDF

I suppose the main question is: do the schools which do not make RS GCSE compulsory give you the option of another subject, then?

I would expect the number of GCSE subjects taken and GCSE options/compulsory subjects to be on the school website/prospectus. You may find that the other schools do 1 subject less as they still have to teach some RE.

Of course your notion of ‘backward views’ is mentioned only in relation to Catholicism. Not Islam or any other religion….

We don't have a religion and both DD and DS did RE at GCSE and absolutely loved it (and got a 9).
They both really enjoyed the philosophy and ethics side of it and its not just focussed on Christianity.
In fact DS plans to do Religion, Philosophy and Ethics as one of his A Levels.
I wouldn't just dismiss it

@OzCalling @Harrumphhhh Are you the types of persons who think that religions shouldn't be criticised because doing so would be offensive?

Religious Studies is unique a subject: there are other subjects where you study theories which are outdated or patently false, but I can't think of many other subjects where you study stuff which is patently false and which people still believe and over which some people will kill you (apostasy is still punishable by death in certain Muslim countries).

Studying Greek mythology is interesting, but no one will kill you for not believing that the sun rises because a god takes it for a spin on a chariot.
In a history class you will learn about nazism and communism, but there aren't many people advocating the recreation of arbeitsagers and gulags.

Like I said, if done properly RS can be an interesting subject.
My concerns were driven by the negative experience of certain friends whose school, despite being a state non-faith school, provided a very different experience to that described by most posters here.

You are, of course, welcome not to believe me, and to instead believe I am simply a rude person who wants to pick up a fight.

Goodbye!

I suppose the main question is: do the schools which do not make RS GCSE compulsory give you the option of another subject, then?

I think you need to realise all schools do things differently! Some have 11 GCSSs as standard, others only 8. If it's taught as part of PSHE, or to satisfy the NC requirement to study RE, it will only be an hour a week, possibly an hour a fortnight - nowhere near enough hours freed up for an extra subject - hence why some make the kids do the GCSE short course.

It's compulsory to study re as part of pshe at most schools, they can choose not to take the exam but they have to take the course. It's not a full gcse always, there (was at least) a short course option though both of mine took the full GCSE and got a star as it was a doddle if you attend church and are able to write persuasively

Religious Education (RE) is compulsory for all pupils in local authority maintained schools aged 5 to 16 years unless they are withdrawn from these lessons by their parents. So at Secondary level many schools think if they’ve got to study it, the pupils may as well get a GCSE out of it.

I personally think your view is quite ignorant of how RE is delivered in mainstream schools. It’s an academic subject in its own right that taught properly, incorporates critical thinking, philosophy, theology and an insight into other cultures. It’s not about religious brainwashing unless you’re sending your child to some extremely exclusive faith school. Why wouldn’t you want your children to learn about different beliefs?

Wrong.
I have mentioned above how apostasy (giving up your parents' religion) is still a crime punishable by death in certain Muslim countries.

Certain protestant churches have very backward views on abortion, with some American fundamentalists opposing it even in cases of children raped.
Certain African congregations have very backward views on the immorality of homosexuality.

I don't feel the need to go into more detail, as the discussion is not about the merits of one religion over another. You are welcome to start your own thread, if that's what you want to discuss.

Goodbye.

If you are Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim whatever you answer from that perspective btw, school was 60% Asian

It IS a full GCSE in many schools now

are other subjects where you study theories which are outdated or patently false

RE GCSE doesn't teach things that are patently false - it teaches 'Islam believes...', 'Christianity believes...' - not God is real and Jesus died for our sins.

And yes - plenty of subjects teach things that are outdated or false - History, Economics, English, Geograohy, Sociology. Even science - hence why everyone thinks two brown eyed parents can't have a blue eyed child.

RE is compulsory, the school have 3 choices:

• Make the GCSE compulsory for all
• Put the GCSE in an option block such as the humanities block, but then cram enough RE into the PSHE timetable that all students cover it without doing a GCSE
• Don't do GCSE at all, and cram it all into PHSE for everyone.

Given that the GCSE is relatively easy for most students; is already set up as a balanced course looking at different religions etc; can actually be taught quite creatively, I guess some schools go with the compulsory GCSE because it is a pre organised, balanced course which gets the kids thinking, is more interesting than something the PSHE teachers could cobble together, and gives the kids an extra qualification, which is something many of them will fine easier to pass.

If it were an option it would be blocked in Humanities I guess. I think whether schools would give them another option, yes so you could chose say one of History, Geography, Sociology, RE. If it was compulsory, that block would just have the other 3 and RE would be another GCSE. Or what my school did was 2 Humanities - everyone did "Integrated Humanities" and then you also had to choose a Humanities option, so if your option wasn't RE you'd still get some in the "Integrated Humanities".

All those things are the type of issues that are part of my DC's RE GCSE course.
There is a strong emphasis on debate

The course my DD's took was re philosophy and ethics, definitely a great subject for all dc to study, atheist was an approved viewpoint if you wish, so it not what you think op

DS is jn Y11. GCSE is offered and is very popular. The course focuses on ethics and philosophy etc rather than dogmatic doctrines.

DS is not doing RS, but the school incorporate philosophical , moral, ethical discussion and debate in Life Skills on years 10 and 11. (R/S is taught as an independent subject up to and including Y9),

I did my GCSE’s in the 90’s but I have to say RE was one of my favourite ones. Growing up in a very white Christian area. It was the one I found most fascinating I loved learned for eg about the 5 pillars of Islam. I think it’s made me a much more rounded person. The exam wasn’t that hard either as the subject matter stuck with me.

@ParentOfOne this is the guidance for RE issued by the DfE: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7adb3ce5274a34770e7953/DCSF-00114-2010.pdf

Non-faith schools often use the curriculum set by their Local Authority's SACRE committee (you can google that) or else, in key stage 4, will follow a GCSE syllabus instead

The SACRE defines how many hours of RE should be taught in key stage 4 in their area.

Same here, it was compulsory GCSE for eldest and she enjoyed it so much she chose it for A Level despite us being a very non religious family. I believe the Philosophy and Ethics side is very interesting and sparks lots of debates amongst students. Also it's supposed to be one of the easiest GCSEs out there!

@Screamingabdabz Religious Education (RE) is compulsory for all pupils in local authority maintained schools aged 5 to 16 years
How about non-maintained schools? Most secondary state schools are now academies.

I personally think your view is quite ignorant of how RE is delivered in mainstream schools.
I had made it very clear that my concerns were driven by the very negative experiences of some friends. It was interesting, refreshing and reassuring to learn that almost all the posters who commented here have had a radically different experience to that.

@sprucinup ^this is the guidance for RE issued by the DfE: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7adb3ce5274a34770e7953/DCSF-00114-2010.pdf^
Same question as above: does it apply to academies? Most secondary schools are now academies. In some councils that's 100%. So what the rules are for maintained schools is not relevant unless they apply to academies, too.

@titchy And yes - plenty of subjects teach things that are outdated or false - History, Economics, English, Geograohy, Sociology.
Which is what I had said. But I had also added that no one will kill you for not believing theories in other subjects, while the world is full of people who will kill you for not believing or for offending their religious theories. Do you disagree? When's the last time someone was killed for not believing a now discredited economic or sociological theory?

Kids bloody LOVE re.

it’s only the parents who moan about it.

No, it is not compulsory for any pupil to take GCSE RE. It is expected that schools offer it. My atheist son took RE as he enjoys philosophical debate ( he is now doing politics and law a levels) but quickly tired of it and wished he had taken something useful instead.

@ParentOfOne yes the guidance applies to academies too. See page 2.