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Secondary education

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GCSE French- foundation or higher

22 replies

CanUDigIt · 10/01/2025 07:30

French is compulsory at DS's school.

He is in Y11 and is top set. He did not want to take French but his teacher is lovely and he has tried his best. The level of complexity has obviously ramped up now and DS is a bit overwhelmed. He is doing 13 GCSEs (I know- they have to if they want to take separate sciences, further maths and statistics). It is a state school.

Would it be less overwhelming for DS if he swapped to Foundation?

Can anyone recommend a pared down way to revise- he is drowning in complicated vocabulary 😬

OP posts:
clary · 10/01/2025 11:38

Foundation is a lot easier, yes. Max grade of 5. I know a bright student who decided to sit F, we chatted about it and he said, why slog it out for a 6 when a 5 is fine.

Will his school allow it if he is top set tho? 13 GCSEs is very heavy workload gosh.

Re vocab - F has a much shorter list. Tbh tho if he is bright and keener on science and maths, I wouldn’t stress. Bright ds2 got a 6 in Spanish with minimal work as his focus was elsewhere. I’m not saying don’t revise nor that a 6 is easy, but can able top set dc who’s worked hard should easily get a 5 in F French.

Drivingoverlemons · 10/01/2025 11:41

Following as I have same issue ref revision.

clary · 10/01/2025 12:19

I can give you some top revision tips (I taught MFL and still tutor) - tell me your boards and I will update later

Miepmiep · 10/01/2025 12:27

I’m guessing he’s very strong in sciences and top set maths if he is doing maths, further maths, statistics and 3 sciences, and probably very bright if he is also top set for French? Is he struggling with any of his other subjects?

I don’t know the answer but one of mine is dyslexic and went from a D to a B and I went from a C to an A at this late stage with not much effort eg flash cards at breakfast, word lists on the wall, listening to vocabulary in the car on the way to school, good exam technique, thinking in French instead of trying to translate, watching French movies with English subtitles, reading more interesting stuff in French. A few tutorials helped, if you can afford that.

If he is in top set, I would be surprised if he can’t achieve a 5 already with no more revision, based on what he already knows. What does his teacher think? She knows him best.

CanUDigIt · 10/01/2025 13:11

Thank you for the replies 😊

I think he probably does know a lot and his teacher is amazing and very encouraging. I think that it's all got to come together now and there is such a lot!

@clary- his exam board is Edexcel. It would be amazing if you could give some top revision tips. I really don't mind what he gets in any of his exams as I know he tries his best- I just don't want him to get overwhelmed and stressed.

@Miepmiep it's nice to know that small things can make a difference- that's what I'm hoping. A bit of targeted revision without him being swamped!

@Drivingoverlemons- solidarity 😄

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Clearinguptheclutter · 10/01/2025 13:15

Going against the grain slightly - he’s clearly bright and good at French generally (not that many are!) if he’s top set. I’d encourage him to make sure that he’s solid for the foundation paper so that he gets at least a 5, and not worry too much about it if other subjects are a priority but sit the higher anyway as he could scrape a 6.

Clearinguptheclutter · 10/01/2025 13:17

Ps is he on Duolingo? My ds is loving it (for Spanish). It’s good value getting the family plan for up to six people- in our case the six is me, DS and four of DS’s mates! You don’t have to pay anything though it’s just to avoid the ads. If too easy you can skip through earlier sections easily. Admittedly the curriculum does not follow what he will be learning directly. But it’s fun and helps a lot.

clary · 10/01/2025 14:20

Clearinguptheclutter · 10/01/2025 13:15

Going against the grain slightly - he’s clearly bright and good at French generally (not that many are!) if he’s top set. I’d encourage him to make sure that he’s solid for the foundation paper so that he gets at least a 5, and not worry too much about it if other subjects are a priority but sit the higher anyway as he could scrape a 6.

To what purpose though? French grade 5 or 6 will make zero difference to him. He’s presumably more STEM focused from his extra GCSEs so no one is going to look for a 6 in French. Ever.

It is so so much easier to get a 5 in F than a 6 in H. A 6 in H means lots of the paper was inaccessible. The F paper is so much easier.

note I am talking more about AQA as I know that one better, but Edexcel is very similar.

Clearinguptheclutter · 10/01/2025 15:49

@clary
I may be hopelessly out of date but I thought everyone did foundation and then some kids took the higher as well. If it’s an either or situation then that is different I agree.

my point stands though that if he’s top set he’s probably better than he thinks he is at it.

clary · 10/01/2025 16:38

Clearinguptheclutter · 10/01/2025 15:49

@clary
I may be hopelessly out of date but I thought everyone did foundation and then some kids took the higher as well. If it’s an either or situation then that is different I agree.

my point stands though that if he’s top set he’s probably better than he thinks he is at it.

No you do one or the other. It’s been that way for a good few years, tho on the old spec you could mix and match on reading and listening papers. But still it was one or T’other.

My point was really, yes he could probs get a 6 but with so many exams and presumably no interest in French post 16, it’s maybe better to drop down to the easier F to take off the pressure

theeyeofdoe · 10/01/2025 16:47

13 GCSEs is ridiculous.
I’d just not bother sitting it.

CanUDigIt · 10/01/2025 17:19

"My point was really, yes he could probs get a 6 but with so many exams and presumably no interest in French post 16, it’s maybe better to drop down to the easier F to take off the pressure"

Yes- that's what I'm thinking 🤔

OP posts:
CanUDigIt · 10/01/2025 17:22

theeyeofdoe · 10/01/2025 16:47

13 GCSEs is ridiculous.
I’d just not bother sitting it.

😂 yes! I know! That was a whole other thread a couple of years ago when DS1 was in the same boat. Managed to get his down to 11!

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ladybirdpoppy · 11/01/2025 09:57

My DS was in the same scenario when he sat his exams. He didn't want to take a language but compulsory at his school.. In Year 10 he was put into the higher level French and predicted a grade 7 however due to the extra content both written and oral it was taking too much of his revision time so spending less time on subjects that really mattered towards his preferred subjects such as maths & sciences. He didn't see French being part of his future career so after two terms he dropped down to foundation level after which freed up so much time and a lot happier. He achieved a 5 in french but best of all 8 & 9 in science & maths which secured him his chosen a levels. Do what's right for your DS and not the school.

fiftiesmum · 11/01/2025 13:08

What does the higher tier go down to?

I fought against my lazy DS doing foundation papers for a couple of gcse's knowing that he would do even less work to "pass". The teacher even asked me to say that I was taking responsibility for the decision.
Luckily he pulled his socks up and ended up with a 6 in both of them - teacher then claimed she had made the wise dect

clary · 11/01/2025 14:48

fiftiesmum · 11/01/2025 13:08

What does the higher tier go down to?

I fought against my lazy DS doing foundation papers for a couple of gcse's knowing that he would do even less work to "pass". The teacher even asked me to say that I was taking responsibility for the decision.
Luckily he pulled his socks up and ended up with a 6 in both of them - teacher then claimed she had made the wise dect

F tier is 1-5
H tier is 4-9

(afaik - in the past maths certainly has gone down to 3 on H tier but not MFL I don't think).

So if a 5 is a likely grade then F tier is best. If you might get a 6 on a good day then H may be better. If you might drop to a 4 then F is safer.

clary · 11/01/2025 14:52

Long post alert!

Sorry I offered MFL GCSE tips and then vanished.
So for speaking exam (as that’s first and mocks may be imminent)

So for both Edexcel and AQA:
Candidate has to choose a theme so it’s a good idea IMO for AQA to pick the hardest theme (of three). They will have to answer questions on each theme, but the one they choose cannot be the photocard. The teacher cannot amend the photocard questions and sometimes they are quite tough. For example, if you avoid theme 2 (holidays, environment, charity) for your general discussion theme, you may then get that for the photocard and wham! You could face an unseen question like “what sorts of charities do you and your friends support and why?” hard to answer in any language. BUT if you choose this theme for the general speaking, your teacher can ask you about holidays and your town which is fine.

For Edexcel there are five themes, of which four will be covered (one role play, one photocard and two general convo) so you may avoid any theme you hate altogether. But just in case I would choose theme 5 which includes the environment and campaigns, then your teacher can ask you about sports and music events, which should be OK. That theme is never the roleplay theme btw.

For AQA it is really important for the candidate to ask the teacher a question in the general convo. For the picture card to gain maximum marks, you should extend answers fully, using at least three verbs in at least three of your answers (this can include j’aime and c’est for example; so j’aime le foot parce que c’est super would count for two verbs). For Edexcel there is no specific requirement to use x number of verbs (that I am aware of) but students will also gain most marks if they fully extend and develop answers here.

By develop answers I mean go into more detail – so if the question is do you think mobile phones are useful and why? then you could talk about why they are useful, what you use one for, how you will use it next week, what you looked up last night – that kind of thing,.

For both AQA and Edexcel speaking there is no need to extend the answers to the role play as both are simply marked for communication of the message.

Development within the general conversation is also important as per the photocard. Students should make sure they use verbs in the past and future tense as well as the present, and refer if possible to other people as well as themselves, “we do xyz” or ‘my brother does abc”.

For speaking, the mark schemes are looking at the same things but for F paper, the questions in photo and role play are easier; and in the general convo the levels are lower (so the answer that would get a mark of 1-2 in communication for higher will get a mark of 7-8 for comm in F tier)

For revision for both boards, the key things to look at are:

  • Variety and depth of vocab – so a range of positive and negative adjectives, a good grasp of vocab by topic, a good knowledge of a range of verbs and nouns.
  • Verbs and tenses – a good solid knowledge of past, present and future tenses, including regular and irregular verbs is crucial. Note that this is about time frames rather than tenses to be fair so use of different forms of the future (futur simple and futur proche) will only tick one “time frame” box (tho using both will be good for range of language marks)
  • As an extra, range of language – using some of the more complex language such as different ways of expressing opinion selon moi, à mon avis etc) or phrases like après avoir xyz.

So the thing to do is to learn vocab and verbs – there is no easy way to do this sadly (watching French films is great but better would be to learn how to say I have gone, I am going and I will go in French!). Write lists on post-its and stick them about the house; record things and listen on your phone; make flash cards and get someone to test you.

And the other thing to do is practice papers – and then look at the mark scheme and see where you went wrong. Think what you would need to know to get it right next time. Did you listen actively to the recording? Are you able to pick the correct elements in the reading? Watch out for negatives as well.

HTH and sorry to ramble! could talk about this all day.

clary · 11/01/2025 15:09

Meant to add (!) that wrt past papers – there are a very limited number on the exam board websites but IMO it is well worth (when they have been done) looking at other boards and even legacy past papers (search them out eg on Revision World) – just bear in mind that the structure of the exam and the format of the questions and answers will be different, but after all a reading task is a reading task. Listenings in particular can be hard to source bc obvs you need the audio so older papers can be really useful here.

Older AQA spec (ie pre 2018 exams) had no translation either way (it does now on R and W papers) so bear that in mind.

CanUDigIt · 11/01/2025 15:18

@clary
Thank you so much! This is really helpful. Especially the explanation of how the themes are shared out across the speaking tasks.

OP posts:
clary · 11/01/2025 15:29

CanUDigIt · 11/01/2025 15:18

@clary
Thank you so much! This is really helpful. Especially the explanation of how the themes are shared out across the speaking tasks.

No worries. Tho tbh I am sure your DC knows about the themes and how that is done. They will have picked a theme already I am guessing so my advice on that is perhaps a bit late (tho I suppose you could change between mock and April exam).

Miepmiep · 11/01/2025 15:45

@clary has given some excellent advice. TBH it’s possibly a bit late in the day for my advice of watching French films but I found it a good way to learn passively while have having fun as it helps “get your ear in” eg good pronunciation, listening when speech is fast, remembering common phrases and expressions from repetition, thinking in French. If there is a good series or some films he would enjoy watching outside of revision time, it won’t do any harm.

I defer to clary as she knows how to get good marks at GCSE but something I found useful for oral exams (not GCSE) was sometimes to answer the question by repeating it to give me some thinking time eg Do you think mobile phones are useful? Yes/no/yes and no, I think mobile phones are useful… I also had lots of stock filler phrases for the same reason 😂 eg In my opinion/in reality, to be honest… that is a complex question, there are two sides to the coin, there are arguments for and against etc I also had some stock sentences that could be used for almost any question if I couldn’t think of a way to demonstrate the past or future tense about the subject to fulfil that requirement eg In the future, I want/don’t want or would/wouldn’t like or I didn’t used to think/like/want that. I guess what I am saying is have as many answers preprepared rather than trying to answer on the spot and translate your thoughts. You don’t have to give a clever or even truthful answer! 😂

clary · 11/01/2025 15:54

yes great points by @Miepmiep there. Agree of course that watching french films cannot do any harm and it may well be beneficial; but I do suspect that some students (not yours of course!) are looking for an easy way out and think that just watching films in French will get them a great grade! I know that's not what miepmiep is saying.

Agree also re having stock phrases to trot out while you think - always good. And yy repeating the question back bc you are manipulating the vocab -
Est-ce que tu penses que..?
Oui, je trouve que ... - will get you a verb tick.

Again , oui, ca, c'est une question complexe, mais a mon avis ... could start any answer but will also bring marks. Two verbs in that one! Just don't use it again and again !!! (I had a student once who only ever used the adjectives funny and interesting – I begged them to learn a couple more lol).

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