Too much tutoring?

[Spacemoonpf]

Hi all. Is this too much tutoring for my daughter? She got 2 and 3’s in her mock exams. Worried there’s no time for actual revision

Mon: 5pm Chemistry & 6:30pm Maths
Tue: 7pm English Language & 8:15pm English Literature
Thu: 5pm Business Studies
Fri: 5pm Biology & 6:15pm Physics

If she’s working at level 2 and 3 right now, even with tutors she’s very likely to struggle with A levels. Have you looked at Btecs? Or vocational options? My DD is likely to get a mixture of 4s, 5s and 6s and she’s been told she’s not suitable for A levels.

Were the 2s and 3s in mocks unexpected? If so, targeted tuition might be very helpful. If this is her normal working standard, then I'm unsure why she thinks that A Levels are appropriate. My DC's school has an ethos of encouraging children to fulfil their aims and has the lowest entry criteria for sixth form around, but even it would be strongly advising against going onto A Levels with that sort of profile, unless there was a specific reason that there would be expectation of huge improvement between now and real exams.

What are the entry criteria for the sixth form she is looking at? I'd expect there to be a minimum expectation for GCSE for different future options, which would inform whether it made more sense to focus on a smaller subset of subject.

No, we are suggesting that trying to get a whole bunch from 2s&3s to 6s (which is the bare minimum for A levels) sounds unrealistic and a more focused approach may be better.

OP. What are the entry requirements? What are current grades in specific subjects? Why tutor science gcses if wanting to do humanities A levels?

I really think you need to research for and apply for a plan B (and C).

I agree with this. Unless the 2s and 3s are way WAY below what she’s capable of achieving and there’s a massive missing piece of the story it sounds like a less academic route (apprenticeship or vocational) would be a better fit for your daughter.

How are you funding all this??

Those are very low grades. It is a blip and she's been performing at a higher standard?
Many 6th forms and colleges want 6's in subjects to be studied and English and maths.
I'd concentrate tutor time on those and if she's prepared to put the hours in to have it several nights a week. They would probably do exam questions too, so covering new materials and revision.
It's only for a few months.
Maybe also consider alternatives to A levels as well?

Poor child. Are you raising a human or a robot?

Year 11 isn't a small child. At that age I worked an hour before school every day, 4 hours after school 3 days a week and 8 hours on a weekend day. In addition to all my revision. I've resolved not to force my kids to work through their GCSEs but I would expect them to be studying the equivalent hours of a 9-5 job in year 11 🤷‍♀️

If she's working at 2&3 level now in year 11 is planning for A levels realistic?
Maybe you should just focus on the maths and English and try and get passes in them.
If she's enjoying the business studies you could continue with that and maybe look at college options to do with business rather than A levels?
It is a lot of tutoring and at this stage trying to get all her subjects up to a 5/6 so that she can do A levels seems unrealistic tbh.

My son has the same amount( plus Wed) and is not even preparing for GCSE but is y7
I am not sure why do you believe that what they do during tutoring is not revising that's exactly the same material as for revision

Why do you assume that everybody has the same salary, and everybody pays some premium price for tutoring?

How much are school providing in terms of extra revision sessions?

DD (Y11) has before school sessions every weekday and afterschool sessions 2 days a week, plus all day Saturday (Maths, English and Sciences) provided by school. Half terms and Easter also have intensive revision days in school.

We're tutoring in Maths for an hour a week 1:1 one evening a week and have seen a 2 grade increase on mock papers in a month.

But, DD has ADHD and severe dyslexia and an hour with a tutor is probably the equivalent of 10 hours attempting to revise by herself - revising with me is likely to end up with parent-child version of divorce!

Depending on Feb mocks, I may add some more tutoring in the mix. If DD's mocks had been in line with your DD's then I would be doing exactly what you are doing.

So, no I don't think you are doing too much - but I would want to see how effective it was and think about if it's targeted correctly. Getting English and Maths over the line is the priority - have you discussed dropping to Foundation level for the maths? It's one where it really is much easier to get the 4 or 5 compared with the higher paper.

I would also seriously consider BTEC L3 instead of A levels if you are having to tutor now in the subjects she wants to study. It's a different pathway and especially if SEN is involved, it can be a much better fit and doesn't mean university is off the table or anything like that.

I agree with others. Grades 2 and 3 in year 11 mocks do not bode well for A levels. A blip in a couple of subjects is understandable but 2/3 across the board is another matter.

You and she need a plan B asap @Spacemoonpf unless her teachers really think she can pull 222333 up to 555666 - and that’s a minimum as a rule for A levels.

Also A level is a lot of independent study - if she needs intensive tutoring to get a pass at GCSE, again it doesn’t bode well.

DW tho there are lots if alternatives, inc BTECs which may suit better. Does she panic in exams? Is there any SEN at play? I would look now at possible college courses. And yes, maybe focus on three key subjects. @TeenToTwenties is right, resits of maths and English are a pain.

What are her actual PGs from school @Spacemoonpf ?

I agree that Btecs don’t close the door to higher education. Deffo she should be doing F paper in maths but tbh she presumably is.

Focus on English and maths.

Those are the ones she will need to resit next year if she does not pass.

Around me the sixth forms want 5 grade 5's plus grade 7's in the a level subjects you want to actually study at a level.

She's very unlikely to meet that kind of level of achievement from grade 2's and 3's.

Consider a plan B.

Throwing time at a problem is not always the answer.
I am keen to know how many adults would put up with such a long working week.

FWIW, one of mine averaged 95% and won Dux medal (highest academic achiever in the graduating year) at basically the best state school in Scotland. Spent time riding a bike, climbing mountains, playing in a band and seeing friends. He had zero tutoring and was average at best until he hit exam courses. It was all about motivation and engagement, not time.

Went on to Uni and hated it.

And FWIW he is currently enjoying a few more years riding bikes and climbing mountains while working his way around the world, before the need for full adulthood and a 'career' comes to him.

Glad my kids are happy, healthy and lovely humans, they will make their way in the world regardless of exam grades or a 'better' uni of some kind.

There is also Foundation level for Science - although not as clear cut as Maths in terms of being able to get the 4 or 5 there more easily.

If you switch to Foundation for Maths and Sciences, you could reduce the revision there and focus more on the English and Business Studies.

But definitely don't consider A level if she's on a 3 now.

Not all children are the same. And for the majority having good exam grades and a university degree are the key to unlocking a successful future.

I am not against taking a different path, but it's unwise to suggest just letting what happens happen unless you have a child with the kind of personality and ability to do this.

This is even more the case if there is SEN in the mix. DD has to work ten times harder than I did yet is likely to get lower grades. One of my siblings got 11 A stars at 13 without seeming to open a book. What works for one, doesn't always work for another.

I agree. 6th forms usually want a minimum of a 6 at GCSE to continue study at A level.

What are the reasons for the current grades? Is she struggling academically? Is she bright but lazy? Does she have ADHD or other ND issue? Something else?

Agree with everyone else - unless there was some reason why she was massively underperforming in the mocks, she's not heading for doing A-levels. Go and investigate what courses there are in local colleges which might suit, see what grades are needed for those. Keep the tuition in maths and English, because those will matter in the future - at least a 4, ideally 5. Otherwise, all that's important is the grades to get on her next course. So for example, our local college has a full-time level 3 course in business (level 3 is roughly equivalent to A-levels) for which they require four GCSEs at level 4+ including English and maths.

OP I get you. Sometimes kids don't engage at school or become distracted and need something more focused. This is a short term goal and is in lieu of revision homework that she would be doing in any event. Most kids do 3 hours' homework a night in the lead up to GCSE. A 1:1 tutor is far better, as instead of spending hours trying to understand something, the tutor can iron out a problem straightaway.
It's also a question of exam technique which the tutor will be able to address. Every little mark helps
And for those who are saying she might not be A level material...a lot of sixth form colleges accept 5s and 4s so it's not the end of the world at all.
You and she would always be thinking "what if?"
And of course there are kids who do lots of sport and extra curricular and still get 9x9s. That's great for them, aren't they the lucky ones, but you need to do whatever you feel will help for YOUR child.

If the knowledge and recall is there but this is down to exam technique that she could make considerable progress. How well did she do in her year 10 exams? Have these lower grades come as a surprise to both her and you? Did she revise for her November mocks?

A levels are usually a grade drop from GCSE if they are achieving at the average end for GCSE which is usually why they request a grade 6 for carrying on a subject like English. She could hit her stride at A level and do better than that or the lower grade could affect her self esteem and she may do worse.

What does the sixth form need her to get to continue with English at A level? Have you asked the sixth form if she comes in on a grade 4 or 5 for English what a child on that grade profile usually comes out with?

If your DD can handle the tutoring then I would continue with it but only if it feels like she is also progressing. My children had after school revision sessions of 1 hour up to 3 sessions a week for all children.

If your DD can handle the tutoring then I would continue with it but only if it feels like she is also progressing.

I agree. DD's maths teacher in year 11 wasn't very good. As DD needed a little more time to "get" new concepts she went to a tutor and managed to jump two grades. It wasn't just to improve her grades though, but to improve her confidence. Doing practice papers helped massively because it improved her exam technique.

Practice papers in the sciences were also very helpful as some of the mark schemes are very specific, especially for biology.

I think if a student goes into an A level course with a 4 at GCSE then the outcome is very unlikely to be good.

@Spacemoonpf is there a reason for the low grades? Are they a surprise, with better expected? Or is this about where she is expected to be?

It’s great that others have done well at A level with lower GCSE grades but the stats show they are probably outliers.

Are you being realistic? DD is very self motivated and had a blip in history. That was because she overlooked it in favour of maths and sciences (that she wanted to study at A level). She went from a 6 to a 9 in history but that was one subject that she took her eye off. If this is across the board, what do her teachers say she's capable of?
My two DSs went the vocational route and did apprenticeships. Both now have great careers with no student loans. They love their jobs and earn more than many of their peers who went on to higher education.
DD was told (albeit different subjects to yours) that for an A level subject she should be looking for at least a 7, preferably an 8.
She says they are so much harder than GCSEs.
Unless your DD's grades were completely unexpected, I'd be concerned that a raise of 4/5 grades in five months is even possible with a tutor.