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Secondary education

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Secondary School Appeal - In Year Transfer - Please Help!

37 replies

Elfin80 · 07/01/2025 11:09

This is very hard to write in a concise way but I will try my best to get to the point.
My children have been in private education since nursery and are currently Year 5 and Year 9.
I found out approximately 8 weeks ago my husband (whom I am now separated from) has not been paying the fees. He has intercepted all communication from the school and it has got to the point where the children were told they could not return to school for the start of term on Monday 6th Janaury.
I immediately applied for school places and my son has got into my local primary school but there are no places at any of the 3 local secondary schools, there is only possibility of a place at a school 6 miles away.
You can imagine how traumatic this has been for my children, having to explain they are simply not allowed to go back into their school or see their friends and have to move school all in one go was horrific. I am still trying to find my way around the financial situation that has led us here and it has been a truly awful time at home for the past few weeks.
I have an appeal on Monday for a secondary school I want my daughter to attend, she has played sport there and knows a number of students and it is situated less than 1/2 mile from my house. The curriculum matches well to her previous school and she is obviously entering the most critical years of her education needing to select options for her GCSE subjects.
The admissions department have only just got the paperwork to me regarding the appeal, which as I say is on Monday. I don't feel I wrote a very comprehensive argument in my initial appeal application as I was just in such a rush to get it submitted.
My daughter is very anxious and upset about the situation, she isn't sleeping and I am beside myself with what is going to happen. I believe she is in a very vulnerable position, she is as such out of education as it stands. I know she is currently number 1 on the waiting list for the school.
I would be just so grateful for any advice how I can try and formulate a realistic argument to voice at the appeal to try and strengthen my case as to why she should be given a place. I am so worried about her mental health she is a very quiet, reserved girl and I just think this is going to impact her so much.

OP posts:
TattyPhoenix · 07/01/2025 18:59

I don't have anything to add on the appeal side but I wanted to give my sympathies. I was wondering whether their own schools would allow them back just to say a proper goodbye? Such a difficult thing <flowers>

springcleaned · 07/01/2025 19:09

"If the format of the appeal is that you get to ask questions"

Confirming there will be the opportunity to ask questions at the appeal. It is a fundamental part of the process.

LadyLapsang · 07/01/2025 21:15

I am sorry your DH has placed your children in this situation.

When you mention there is a possibility of a place 6 miles away, have you been offered a place or has the LA highlighted they think there may be places available in Yr. 9 which you haven’t pursued?

How far was your daughter’s home to school journey in her previous school?

In what way do you feel the academic curriculum of the nearby school offers better continuity with her previous school, when compared to the school 6 miles away?

Had she already chosen her GCSE options in the previous school and if so do you have a paper trail?

minipie · 07/01/2025 21:35

The key argument for you is going to be what does this school offer that your daughter needs, that other schools do not. So, if this is the only school where she could do her GCSE choices (albeit maybe not in the “right” set, at least to start) then say that clearly. Likewise, the sports coaching although if all the schools offer her sports then wanting a particular teacher may carry less weight.

The other angle is to question the school’s case on “full”. Don’t go in hard but worth probing a little unless you think the appeal panel have asked everything possible already. How many kids in the other years? If it’s more than in y9, why can’t they take another in y9?

Elfin80 · 11/01/2025 15:09

Thank you everyone for all your advice and help, I have tried to get my head around the appeal process and try and write a clear argument.
Please can you confirm I have got this right, in the first stage the school will present their argument, i.e. the report they have sent me. I will then get chance to ask questions of their argument of prejudice?
The second stage is where I present the case for my daughter, I have included:

  • The impact the change of school is going to have on my daughter is significant, she is being forcibly removed from her current school through no fault of her own. There has been significant emotional upheaval at home due to parents separation and financial situation.
  • The preferred school will enable her to continue her GCSE options and is the best curriculum match, there are certain subjects not available at the alternative school. It is a very significant point of her education.
  • The extra curricular activities at school will enable her to carry on her county level sports, these sports are not offered at some of the other schools and all practices have to be attended before or after school which would not be accessible for her due to distance from home.
Having read, probably not always the best idea I know, lots of information on here about other people's experience, I just feel everything is going to boil down to the fact that there are no spaces and they are not over numbers in any other year. Sorry! I feel totally overwhelmed and underprepared.
OP posts:
minipie · 11/01/2025 15:19

Yes you are correct on how it goes. There is an introduction by the panel, then the school’s case (you ask them questions) then your case (they can ask you questions). The panel should also ask questions, both of the school and you.

If multiple people are appealing for the same school then you may find that the hearing is split in two - in the first part all the appellants join in together, the school states its case about being full, and all the appellants can raise their questions. This saves on repetition. Then the second part is private (just you, the school and the panel) and is just for your case about your child.

Of your bullet points, 2 and 3 are the strongest, 1 is not really, so focus on 2 and 3. No harm in mentioning 1 but don’t major on it iyswim.

Do you know whether her GCSE options and sports would be available at other schools in the area? So, they are not available at the offered school, they are available at the appeal school, but what about other (perhaps less sought after) schools?

Elfin80 · 11/01/2025 15:31

minipie · 11/01/2025 15:19

Yes you are correct on how it goes. There is an introduction by the panel, then the school’s case (you ask them questions) then your case (they can ask you questions). The panel should also ask questions, both of the school and you.

If multiple people are appealing for the same school then you may find that the hearing is split in two - in the first part all the appellants join in together, the school states its case about being full, and all the appellants can raise their questions. This saves on repetition. Then the second part is private (just you, the school and the panel) and is just for your case about your child.

Of your bullet points, 2 and 3 are the strongest, 1 is not really, so focus on 2 and 3. No harm in mentioning 1 but don’t major on it iyswim.

Do you know whether her GCSE options and sports would be available at other schools in the area? So, they are not available at the offered school, they are available at the appeal school, but what about other (perhaps less sought after) schools?

Thank you @minipie this is an in year appeal for Year 9 for my daughter who has been forced to leave her current (independent) school as her place has been withdrawn due to financial reasons. As per my original post this happened unexpectedly and very quickly. I haven't actually been offered a place for her from any school as yet, I applied to the 2 closest schools both of which are full and have appealed the decision at my preferred school.
I have asked the School Admissions for a list of schools with places and none of them are 'local' to us. I have looked at some of the schools and they do not offer some subjects she intended to take, and also continue to A-Level, and also with the sport, the 2 next closest schools to us that potentially could have a space do not offer any sports coaching/practices in the sports she plays at county level.
I feel she is extremely vulnerable having been in her previous school since she was 2, and coping with the changing circumstances at home, she is a very quiet, introverted girl. At the moment she is so anxious, not sleeping or eating properly, I am completely beside myself. She does have some friendships already established from the preferred school.
I live 500m from the preferred school and it would have been the one we applied to for Year 7, she is number 1 on the waiting list from her criteria.

OP posts:
Elfin80 · 11/01/2025 22:16

I am really unsure as to what to ask the school when they have put their case forward - as to try and counter their prejudice argument.
Should I question whether they have previously gone over numbers?
The school is under capacity but at PAN for her age group - is this at all relevant?
Am I supposed to counter the things they argue against her admission with my questions or should this be kept to the second stage when I give my statement?
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I give her the best chance possible.

OP posts:
Lougle · 11/01/2025 22:23

@Elfin80 you could ask if the school has been over PAN in any other year group in the last 5 years and how they dealt with it. You could also ask if they have been over PAN in her proposed year group in the last 5 years and how they dealt with it.

You could ask how often they assess pupils for setting in her year group. You absolutely should point out that being in the German stream isn't a problem for her (I wouldn't add that she's 'not big on languages', just say that she has learned both in the past).

Focus on why this school meets her needs. She doesn't have a right to a 'local' school but I would absolutely make the point strongly about the stability of her sport and the fact that this is the state school she is familiar with.

I would also make it really clear that this is a traumatic departure from the private school and that you, and she, had no idea that this was all happening until your child was told that she couldn't return.

FWIW, I think you have a strong case for admission. All schools are obliged to state a case for refusal to admit. They have no choice. They could desperately want to take her but have to say that they would be gravely inconvenienced if they took another child. They just have to.

Elfin80 · 11/01/2025 22:32

Lougle · 11/01/2025 22:23

@Elfin80 you could ask if the school has been over PAN in any other year group in the last 5 years and how they dealt with it. You could also ask if they have been over PAN in her proposed year group in the last 5 years and how they dealt with it.

You could ask how often they assess pupils for setting in her year group. You absolutely should point out that being in the German stream isn't a problem for her (I wouldn't add that she's 'not big on languages', just say that she has learned both in the past).

Focus on why this school meets her needs. She doesn't have a right to a 'local' school but I would absolutely make the point strongly about the stability of her sport and the fact that this is the state school she is familiar with.

I would also make it really clear that this is a traumatic departure from the private school and that you, and she, had no idea that this was all happening until your child was told that she couldn't return.

FWIW, I think you have a strong case for admission. All schools are obliged to state a case for refusal to admit. They have no choice. They could desperately want to take her but have to say that they would be gravely inconvenienced if they took another child. They just have to.

Thank you @Lougle that’s all really helpful I think I just have to remember the points you’ve raised and keep them a strong focus of my argument, i was just unsure as to how far to go with my questions to try and counter their statement in the first stage. But like you say I will question previous years PAN etc and ask questions on the streaming process.
I really hope so, I feel like my daughter is suffering so much but has been heroic in how she’s dealt with it. If I can get her into this school I just feel she’s getting a small piece of stability back.

OP posts:
Elfin80 · 12/01/2025 10:22

I feel quite confident that I have a good argument for my daughter’s needs to attend the school for the second stage.
In the school report their reason for prejudice is:

  1. The high/middle ability maths groups are full and so admitting her to one of these would be detrimental to those pupils and admitting her to lower ability would be detrimental to those pupils needing more teacher intervention.
  2. The higher/middle ability science groups are full with 32 pupils and no more desks can be put in classrooms, again if she were put in lower ability it would be detrimental to those pupils needing more teacher intervention.
  3. The pupils have been streamed into language choice on entry and there is no room for her in the French stream so she would have to do German - my daughter has studied German previously so this does help with this argument.
Am I supposed to argue against these points in my statement or oppose them with questioning? How do I argue they can accommodate her or is that something I shouldn’t enter into and just concentrate on my regiment for why she needs to be in that school. They have cited health and safety reasons as the main other factor, saying communal space is overcrowded etc. i am conscious of not falling into ‘just one more pupil’ won’t make a difference but it’s hard to know what to say? My appeal is tomorrow and am I am just so worried I am not doing my daughter justice, she has been so let down, I just want to make sure I do everything I can for her.
OP posts:
springcleaned · 12/01/2025 10:44

Elfin80 · 12/01/2025 10:22

I feel quite confident that I have a good argument for my daughter’s needs to attend the school for the second stage.
In the school report their reason for prejudice is:

  1. The high/middle ability maths groups are full and so admitting her to one of these would be detrimental to those pupils and admitting her to lower ability would be detrimental to those pupils needing more teacher intervention.
  2. The higher/middle ability science groups are full with 32 pupils and no more desks can be put in classrooms, again if she were put in lower ability it would be detrimental to those pupils needing more teacher intervention.
  3. The pupils have been streamed into language choice on entry and there is no room for her in the French stream so she would have to do German - my daughter has studied German previously so this does help with this argument.
Am I supposed to argue against these points in my statement or oppose them with questioning? How do I argue they can accommodate her or is that something I shouldn’t enter into and just concentrate on my regiment for why she needs to be in that school. They have cited health and safety reasons as the main other factor, saying communal space is overcrowded etc. i am conscious of not falling into ‘just one more pupil’ won’t make a difference but it’s hard to know what to say? My appeal is tomorrow and am I am just so worried I am not doing my daughter justice, she has been so let down, I just want to make sure I do everything I can for her.

You don't need to argue against those facts. As mentioned up-thread, the panel will use their judgement to decide whether your case is stronger than the school's. It is simply a balancing act.

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