Tiffin Girls vs indies

[meuntilmarch2025]

DD has been doing well so far and DH and I are trying to make up our minds as we go through the second stages next week.

We have Guildford, St Pauls, G&L and LU in the list for indies (kind of have a list of preference already) and DD has been in a selective prep since reception. No experience of state education, but there is a level of fearmongering amongst some parents I know (ironically most of them had DCs go to state primaries) about state schooling. Some of DD current school parents acknowledge TGS is good and hard to get in etc but then they didn’t consider grammar schools either.

What is Tiffin Girls like? What kind of schools do the girls come from - anyone has intel on the breakdown of state vs private?
I found the school better than I imagined, to be honest I thought it would be run down, cramped but it was nothing like that. But is the teaching actually good? Or am I asking too much from a free school.

I am ready to pay for additional tuition where required and for extra curricular activities but then should we just consider an independent school that provides those already? DD still did do a lot of things outside of school during prep such as sports and music but I did like the opportunities her school provided too. To be honest I love her current prep and firmly believe the enriched curriculum and pastoral care really benefited her, but as she is now a little older, she can have a little more room to become independent and sort of ‘out in the more realistic world’ - I know Tiffin would nothing be like that exactly but as children probably get less attention than the indies and she’ll need to fight her way.

Any words from parents who chose Tiffin Girls after private education would be really appreciated.

Salaries for teachers are no longer much better in private schools. Many private schools appear to have better salaries but once you realise that many have withdrawn from the TPS (teachers pensions scheme) in the long run they are not that great. Hence, why many teachers are returning to the state sector especially those with money already in the TPS, which can result in a drain of experience. Take a look on the TES job section and you can see for yourself there is little difference these days.

Like Tiffin, DD's school is very academically successful. It's probably one of the closest comparisons among independent schools. Based on what you said earlier, the three things that stuck out for me as being really different are

Relentless tests. We haven't had this at all. Tests have been few and far between, and there is a huge emphasis on girls not competing with one another (I'm guessing it's harder to avoid this with a lot of tests).

Little feedback for parents. Not my experience. And if you want more feedback, you will get it if you ask.

High homework demands. I've been pleasantly surprised that on the whole there has been very little homework.

Also, actually, a fourth thing which is sports teams for top talents only (and I'm guessing similar for music and drama etc, but I might be wrong). We've found that if a child wants to be involved there will be something they can join for their level, even if they aren't one of the best. There were 7 netball teams for that age group running in Y7 (about half the cohort).

I don’t have direct experience with Tiffin, but I’ve heard that the more frequent tests in state schools (not just academic ones) help the teachers to know what pupils may be getting behind in certain areas. With larger classes it’s easier for some to fall through the cracks. This probably isn’t as necessary in private schools with smaller classes. Tbh they seem to help keep our DC on top of things so really don't mind them!

As you know 1/3 of grammar schools got downgraded by OFSTED - the aspect of teaching provision is often the reason.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn , this fact is well known in Kingston because Tiffin school was downgraded to Good in 2022.

Tiffin Girls school is a super selective school and any dd who gains a place straight out in March or later on via the WL should be proud of their achievement. It was graded outstanding in 2021.

Yes but that’s nothing to do with my point about salaries. And that still doesn’t mean the teaching is better in private schools. One could easily argue you need to be a better teacher to teach in the state sector because of the wider variety of abilities amongst the pupils

Sure, of course with this specific school, TG, is a completely different story. But I still believe that if she has a choice of top selective private school and even best grammar, I would go for private as they are not underfunded as grammar schools It is equally hard to get in to those school.

I know ex Tiffin Boys teacher, my neighbour. I don't feel like writing down her stories. But a lot is based on perpetuated legends. Have a good evening

Don’t understand what you’re saying..

But yes I’m sure your one neighbours stories are all true and correct…

Realistically you are looking at £250,000 for 7 years at a private secondary school from Sept 25. It's a massive amount of money however wealthy you are. I wonder if the private schools will publish the Sept 25 fees by early March, they have until last day of Easter holidays to do so (1 terms notice).

Independents offer individualised academic support to pupils whenever they need it through clinics, one-to-ones etc. You can be sure that your child will be given all the help that they need. Many independent school pupils are not high achievers in all areas (e.g. struggle with maths) but independents get good grades for them. Tiffin is more of a sink or swim environment. The majority of state pupils that are accepted to Oxbridge come from Tiffin and the other selective grammar schools. This is how Oxbridge gets the academically excellent whilst meeting its state school quota. If your child is thinking about Oxbridge (perhaps early days for that!) I would recommend Tiffin.

That’s not true though, as a super selective grammar like Tiffin is viewed in exactly the same way as an independent school for the purposes of Oxbridge admissions. They look at how pupils’ achievements fit into the context of their peer group, not the money paid in fees.

@BonjourCrisette your assessment of where there is divergence is exactly right.

Class size is obviously another big one - but behaviour is good, so that's mitigated a little.

I wouldn't recommend TGS for Oxbridge

• Oxford rank your gcses against your cohort. Because TGS is so academically selective at entry that will count against you. (Obviously this is total nonsense as much of the achievement is down to the high ability of the cohort not the school and it is ironic that the same child would be ranked more highly had they been sent to the vast majority of independent schools)
• The teachers don't have the time and capacity to go beyond the curriculum in the way that is helpful for Oxbridge and they don't have time to provide individualised help with Oxbridge prep

I would go for a good independent over TGS if money were no object. However I would choose TGS over the other local state schools if I had an academically able and unstressy child.

Good things about TGS are

• Peer group. Well behaved and hard working. Your daughter will have friends who will want to go to the library with her and revise! At a certain point teens pay a lot more attention to their friends than their parents so this is an invaluable advantage especially with a teen who isn't self motivated.
• Music and science seem to be very good and well taught as I believe is art.
• School is well organised and responsive to parents when issues occur
• All subjects appear to have subject specialist teachers. Very little supply.
• Fairly light touch to discipline. Not the zero tolerance blink and you get a detention approach to education.

Bad things about TGS

• Some poor and lazy maths teaching. The girl's tend to get decent grades anyway due to being able at maths but I actually think they could do better if the teaching was improved.
• No written feedback, just numbers or letters on reports.
• In English not enough essays are set and marked.
• Quite a lot of anxiety and eating disorders which can be amplified by the peer group (will be the same with all academically selective girls schools though I imagine)
• Too much study leave and not enough learning time in sixth form and a rigid approach to subject choice e.g. have to take five subjects in year 12 if you are doing further maths.

Many independent school pupils are not high achievers in all areas (e.g. struggle with maths) but independents get good grades for them.

The comparison here is not with the average independent school where that would be the case. The OP is listing TOP independent where it is more difficult to get to than Tiffin. Yes, the top private not only require you to pay but also they are very competitive to get in.

And

Throughout education they don't spend a bit more than £4k per pupil per year as it is in grammar but much much more as they are paid schools.

At last somebody has at depth insight and doesn't rely only on the GLORIFIED legends.

Top private as well as the TGS have Leavers Destinations page. Only a handful of TGS goes to Oxbridge ( if that is something one has in plans). These days it is more likely to get in from Brompton Manor and similar sort of schools

Have you experienced the private sector at all? I have and have no recollection whatsoever of designer handbags being the norm. Far from it in fact.

I have friends with girls at TGS and other friends who tried to get daughters in there but were unsuccessful. From what I understand, unless you live in the inner catchment, chances are limited.

I have a DD at GHS and I'd say it's easier to get in there than TGS, simply because the number of applicants for TGS is so much higher.

Not sure if it's a factor for you but one thing to be aware of is there's limited sociability outside of school at TGS as majority come from such disparate areas & culturally are not encouraged to socialise.

And given how extremely selective TGS is I would say that a lot of independents like GHS are actually proving quite a good value add, because in many cases their results are the same or better. Extra curriculars will of course be better funded.

That said if you aren't wealthy then TGS is going to be an excellent option if your child gets a place. If subsequently if turns out your daughter falls behind a bit in a subject at TGS it will be a lot cheaper to hire a tutor than it would have been to pay for years of private school.

Here is the financials of Tiffin Girls. Great school but seriously underfinanced as most of the grammar schools. The comparison of wealthy schools like Eton is crazy

https://schools-financial-benchmarking.service.gov.uk/School?urn=136615#dashboard 

It's probably worth mentioning that TGS majors on STEM subjects and 40-50 girls go on to do Medicine every year, many at the London universities, and many more than most of the academically comparable independent schools in SW London. This may be one explanation for the relatively low proportion going to Oxbridge, despite its selectivity. (I'm an ex-TGS parent, so I'm basing this on my oldest DD's cohort - a few years ago now but still relevant). It has a strongly South Asian demographic, and given the wide catchment most girls will be either the only one from their primary school, or at most one of two or three. The school is very aware of this and very good at the Y7 settling in stuff.

"Not sure if it's a factor for you but one thing to be aware of is there's limited sociability outside of school at TGS as majority come from such disparate areas & culturally are not encouraged to socialise."

I agree with the above though they do socialise at school, but not much outside. My daughter, who is white, is at a different London girls' grammar school (the school is about 10-15% white) and her Indian/Sri Lankan friends were barely let out of the house before the end of year 11. She had one white friend she could go on trips to London with.

Some of her friends seem to be allowed out more now they are in sixth form.

I'm not sure race is the reason. My two nieces are at one of the schools mentioned in the first post and they are white European. Their mum doesn't let them out on the tube, insists on school bus, calls the 17 year old every 15 min on the rare occassion she does go out with friends. She's worried about paedophiles, men attacking etc.

the D of E program is not free in state schools, and honestly only a handful will be doing the Gold level, so whatever its cost is not really relevant to the majority