Leverage up for state catchment vs downsize for private

[theendlessjuggle]

We live in Surrey. We moved from a mid sized house in a town to a large one in a village which is lovely… but we are now faced with a secondary school dilemma. Most kids on our road are at at private school. It’s a bit of a dead zone for state secondary.

We are high earners but mortgage, house renovation costs and childcare swallow up a high chunk of our income. Usual story!

We are in catchment for a Good secondary. But most people say “o yes, I think that has improved” because it “required improvement” for a very long time. We viewed it and it was just ok. Head clearly doing her best … and worryingly strong on discipline.

We could move back into the nearby town to be in catchment for an outstanding state secondary (the catchment is less than 1km and comparable houses start at around £1.3). I viewed it and it was clearly better, although more of a music/drama focus than sport. (Our son loves doing a different sport every day at their large outstanding primary.)

Or we could downsize/stretch ourselves and go private… but we have three kids. Right now the sums wouldn’t add up. We’d be paying double fees for 7 years and triple for one! And my husband and I were both state educated in the Grammar system so the private world is totally new to us. Is it worth it?

My husband is reluctant to move - of course. But I see it as a move costing £200k vs private school fees of £500k. Maybe that is too simplistic.

Help!

You have access to a good State Secondary, I am not sure why you need to do anything.

I would rule out private, half a million quid isn’t worth it.

How old are your kids? How much time do you have to move? Also, you don’t mention what your children are like- are they doing well in state primary?

I wouldn’t send three kids private, I’d move. Fees for two day School students for us next year will be £55k. For one year. (Said as I private school parent who wishes we’d moved into grammar area when we had the chance).

Stay where you are, send the children to the state school and get tutors if it becomes necessary.

@theendlessjuggle I feel your pain, we are in a very similar position, however our catchment school is dire! DD would hopefully get into the secondary that her primary feeds which is ‘Good’ but the only guarantee we have of her not going to the catchment school is to go private which would be a massive stretch.
I’m sure that part of the reason the catchment school is so poorly performing is the gentrification of the area and those incomers (like us!) choosing private but I’m not up for sacrificing my child’s future for ideological purposes so looks like we’ll be crossing everything for the Good school.

Will living in a village suit teenagers? Is there public transport that they can use, get to and from school?

With good support your kids will do well in a ‘good’ secondary. The majority of RG (and even Oxbridge) students have come from state ed.

I would think more about their other opportunities and wider lives.

How old is your child? Ofsted isn't the be all and private doesn't mean better.

We have some time. The eldest is in year 4. Doing well at state primary (top set for maths, middling for English). The primary school is very ambitious annd nurturing and I’ve only heard of one case of bullying in 5 years. Lots of bright kids. Probably a third of his class have private music tuition. The school doesn’t have to work too hard for donations…

Very similar. I think the catchment school was underperforming for so long - hence why local kids mostly went private. It’s turned around but is that enough to just get the “good” score and churn out better grades?

But maybe I’m just overthinking the whole thing!

I'd stay where you are and go to local school and spend the money on enrichment/tutors if necessary.

I think you need to separate "peer group" from "better school".

I'd go with an improving state school over paying a lot of money to move to one that might not actually be any better in practice. Viewing with your oldest in Year 4 is very early - the schools might change and your view of what you want might also change.

Personally I would look to move within catchment for the better state school - but then education is my 'thing' and I'd be willing to accept a fair bit of upheaval and potentially an inferior house for the sake of an excellent school (especially one that's strong on sport and the Arts - so rare in state schools atm, where I am at least).

You could stay where you are and tutor/top up of course, but personally I'd find the time and logistical commitment around filling all the gaps with tutors, classes, instrumental lessons etc to be more of a long-term stress than actually moving! Much better to be reassured that at least some of this is happening in-house.

I wouldn't bother with private at the moment, with the VAT price hike and the uncertainty around the political landscape in the near to medium term. Especially for 3 DC!

Good advice. We haven’t involved DS at this stage because it would be too early.

But just not feeling thrilled at the thought of the local one…

Here’s an example which makes me sound insane…

Having grown up singing in choirs I felt horrified that the catchment school Head admitted their choir sounded terrible but it was good for the children’s mental health… whereas the outstanding secondary had a plethora of choral options - classical, jazz, modern. All very high standard.

A local mum friend has also pulled her son out for various reasons and sent him private. One anecdote was that he was the only child who used to turn up to weekly hockey practice which I find very odd.

An alternative view on the choirs is that local school is really inclusive to everyone, regardless of ability, and that the other school will exclude people who are not very musically able. (And, I know this isn't a universally held opinion, but I think if your child is really musical it would be better to pursue opportunities out of school).

I've also found that musical options can wax and wane depending on children available. My DC's school used to have an extremely thriving jazz band, but after the year when a large number of the players left, it became much less successful, and then folded entirely the year later.

I am sorry OP from what you write you will never be happy with State BUT you probably can't really afford it.
We went Private because our State Secondary is awful and also because where we are Private schools are quite different to Surrey.
Moving is a drastic step and I think that even if your DC got into the excellent State school you describe I doubt it will even give you the experience you want, plus theres a chance your DC won't like the school OR even get in if catchments change
Then there is the Private option, with 3 DC and Surrey Private school prices I think its going to be tough and probably not worth the stress.
In your shoes I think I would stay put (assuming you like where you live) and pay for extra curriculars if necessary and also accept that most State schools won't give the kind of school life you think you want for your kids.

Good points.
I had one or more children in the same Secondary school for 15 years and the extracurricular activities have changed a lot over that time as new clubs have formed, others closed or morphed into other things according to the interests of pupils and teachers at the time. The core sports have stayed much the same I would say but most other things have fluctuated in popularity over the years. Strangely our jazz band also folded recently but I think that was to do with a teacher retiring. There are still lots of other music activities but jazz obviously isn't the new music teacher's forte. I'm sure he has introduced musical styles that weren't there before though.
I absolutely agree that you can't look at a school's extracurriculars now and assume they will be the same in even a year or two. A new teacher or a different cohort of pupils can change things significantly and rapidly.

Head admitted their choir sounded terrible but it was good for the children’s mental health…

Heaven forfend! 🤣
Are there no extracurricular choirs your DC could attend?

Are there no extracurricular choirs your DC could attend?

@Suet99 Without wanting to answer on behalf of the OP - I'm sure it's very area dependent - this can be surprisingly hard!

DD currently sings in a children's choir, but it took us ages to track it down and we have to travel considerable a distance to get there. We're looking to move (for schools!) next year and have identified a lovely choir in the place we're moving to, but they're perilously close to folding due to falling numbers at the lower end of the age range - choral singing is one of those activities that seems to be becoming increasingly niche (and elite - plenty of thriving prep school choirs around us).

Where we are you're fine if you want a show/pop choir type set-up as part of a commercial stage school, but anything with more of a classical repertoire, or that involves learning to read music, is increasingly rare.

It actually sounds like OP's local school is doing well to run a choir, and to appreciate the wider value of music as an activity. Part of the reason we're planning to move is that our catchment academy secondary offers next to no music/drama/art/sport and is very open about the fact that it focuses narrowly on academics.

We are in the position you describe, albeit later on in the process. 3 children. Originally our lovely rural location was within catchment of an outstanding school, but the catchment has shrunk in the past 7 years from 5miles to 1mile.

We weighed up the pros and cons. Cannot afford private for 3 kids and although there are good schools we would get into, it would involve shifting our whole life into the opposite travelling direction if our eldest got in there.

We have opted to move for the outstanding school place. In our eyes it felt like paying the subsidy for the closer home was set against the alternative of private school education. The outstanding secondary really IS just like the private school I went to went growing up. Arts and drama afforded equal weighting to maths and English. All the opportunities.

For us the move was worth it for that.

We moved when DS was in year 5 to be closer to a secondary school. We had already fallen into an educational DMZ at primary and ended up not being allocated a school at all and I didn't want that happening again at secondary.

I weighed up the cost to send DS (only child) to private school and decided the money was better invested in a (hopefully) appreciating asset like a house. I also didn't like the old house so it wasn't a hardship to move.

I think we made the correct decision as friends who still live in our old road ended up not being allocated secondary school places for their children and had to appeal for a place, or sent their children to private schools locally.

I would look at the sporting and other activities easily accessible in the town versus current location.

Ferrying 3 pre-teens/teens to their various matches and classes etc. is there more choice in town, more people to perhaps lift share with.

It sounds like you can't afford private and some schools will be at risk of closing/merging due to falling birth rates.

Honestly sounds so similar! The whole thing just seems so tricky to navigate and I just wonder if I am overthinking the whole thing. I had the most wonderful secondary school experience and I suppose, like all parents, you just want your children to thrive and love going to school. Extra curriculars are what makes school life full and fun.

The catchment school is the opposite direction of travel compared with our work commute and primary drop off too. Though DS could get a bus - I think.

A school can only do so much tbh. It takes a while to shift preconceived ideas and the fact most of the kids on your road go private should go someway into explaining why it's so hard for your local school. They can run all the clubs but if people don't turn up, there's not much you can do.
As for the better school, unless your child is into music I don't know how that's helpful tbh. And to put it rather unkindly, don't piss on an honest headteacher. They're worth their weight in gold and it's not something you'll find in the private sector. At least with that school you'll know exactly what you're signing up for, before you turn your life upside down. I think it's far better for a child like yours to go to the good school as the teachers often pour lots of attention into them. They want to attract families like yours. Theres plenty of outside clubs etc you can involve your child in and put money into things your child specifically enjoys. A lot of the time in private schools, parents eventually find they're forking out in the thousands to subsidise sports, arts and music that their child doesn't even use. Class sizes aren't much smaller than state and you'll quickly find private schools are filled with kids with tutors. If you have the money, I would use it to enrich your child's life in a bespoke way.

Sorry by go to the good school I mean your local school. That school will really want to attract families like yours.

@theendlessjuggle you need to dig into the reasons for the improvement of your local school - if its down to a new HT / SLT then dont underestimate the importance of that, it's massive.

a school that required improvement and has made those improvements can actually be a really strong option and might well continue on an upwards path.

What was your intention about secondary education when you moved to the house? If you moved again, how would that impact the younger two in terms of primary places? What do you know about usual leaver destinations from the current primary?