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Secondary education

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PGCE in Different Subject to Degree

16 replies

HmmAnonymous · 07/11/2024 22:07

I’m in my final year studying classics and English but I am considering pursuing PGCE geography. My degree featured elements of history, religion and geography within my options - some law later this year as well. In a literary module, I was able to write an essay about the meaning of ‘home’ in a world affected by climate change and another that showed self-awareness about my impact on the environment. I have a GCSE and A Level in geography but no degree in the subject.

I have work experience in a classroom setting in geography and English and had teachers ask when I would be returning as they liked having me. They said I was confident and handled myself well - behaviour had nosedived since I left the year prior but I still enjoyed the experience. I helped out in geography as well in the weeks following the completion of my A Level exams.

My desire to pursue geography PGCE stems from my own geography teachers who were enthusiastic about the subject that made me look forward to the next lesson. I want to pass on the enthusiasm they fostered in me for the subject to a new generation of students. Often times, I will find myself coming across an article or recent events (Hurricane Milton) and think about their relevance to the classroom.

One thing people learn about me is my love for maps (OS, rock types, world…). Nothing brings me greater joy (although books are on par). I do strongly believe that my degree has equipped me with skills that I can apply to the geography classroom: critical thinking, thinking analytically and outside the box, identifying reliable sources, different activities that might be appropriate, essay writing.

I want students to enjoy the subject and be able to see its relevance in the world and the ability to see beyond what is taught in the classroom, coming into class and be able to engage in discussions about recent events within geography.

I have applied for English PGCE and been offered interviews by all my choices. I have contacted one provider to ask if I could be considered for geography if possible and they said they’d look into it. I have no issues pursuing English I love it just as much as geography but the rewarding nature of my geographical studies has left a lasting impact on me. I have taken A Level and GCSE tests on the subject content and have retained most of my knowledge. There are gaps but I’m willing to work on them.

I am also considering whether I might be better pursuing English and asking if I can also participate in some geography classes or vice versa so I maintain my subject knowledge in my degree-subject whilst fostering my love for geography.

What worries me though is that as I don’t have a relevant degree, I might be confined to KS3. I would love to teach KS4 and (possibly) KS5 - where I live the local high schools don’t offer KS5 geography.

To parents: I understand your frustrations about non-specialists teaching your children as you want the best for them. I would like to ask (please be brutally honest), would you prefer not to have someone like myself (who many won’t consider a “subject-specialist”) teach your child geography due to my lack of degree-level knowledge despite my genuine passion?

I want to form good teacher-parent relationships but I’m worried parents may look down on me as I’m not a specialist with a relevant degree and therefore impact the number of students who want to pursue geography at GCSE as they don’t think in good enough or equipped to do the job. I don’t want to be considered an obstacle to their child’s success.

To educators: With a lack of degree-level geography, would I be shooting myself in the foot by pursuing PGCE Geography and then struggle to find work at ECT and beyond in geography and English?
Would I be better off pursuing English or might I be ok as it’s a shortage subject?
Is it a case that as I build my experience up as a teacher of geography, my degree may matter less than the results and knowledge I posses when applying for jobs?

OP posts:
Rumplestiltz · 07/11/2024 22:11

Parent here: would be very happy to have you with your enthusiasm as a teacher. You sound great.

Zucchero · 07/11/2024 22:13

Your main issue will be whether universities will accept you for the Geography PGCE. Check bursaries for each subject and consider a subject knowledge enhancement course.

MBL · 07/11/2024 22:15

It might depend where you live/want to teach. Whilst I think all subject teachers are in demand now, in our area there seems to be more demand for English specialists. And of course schools need more English teachers.

I think you are unlikely to teach A level geography as there will be a geography specialist who would likely get the nod ahead of you.

daffodilandtulip · 07/11/2024 22:18

There's not a lot of time to spend teaching yourself geography content, before you're thrown in and expected to teach it...

noblegiraffe · 07/11/2024 22:22

There aren’t any Geography subject knowledge enhancement courses but they missed recruitment targets for geography last year. Ask the training providers to see what they think.

niclw · 07/11/2024 22:34

Head of geography here. One teacher in my department has a sports science degree rather than geography, and last year we had a trainee who has a degree in animal care. It wouldn't put me off appointing you. However, depending on where you are in the country depends on the number of geography vacancies around. Where I am the vacancies are few and far between but very few applicants for each role. However, in areas with high numbers of applicants you may find that someone with a geography degree would be appointed over you. You will need to be able to prove that you have the subject knowledge at interview or explain how would ensure that your subject knowledge will be up to scratch. One things about geography is that the world in constantly changing so everything I taught today may be inaccurate tomorrow so I have to learn new content frequently.

Trillio · 07/11/2024 22:57

I'm not sure how fussy course providers might be but secondary schools are often flexible about what teachers teach in terms of their specialism at university.

Fizzygoo · 07/11/2024 23:01

I’ve recently been told by my teenagers physics teacher that his degree is in product design. He is a fantastic teacher and students really engage with him…my eldest got an A AS this summer with him

my point I’m not sure…

HmmAnonymous · 08/11/2024 07:49

Thanks, that’s reassuring.

Would that mean I could possibly apply for English and geography jobs? Again, I love both subjects but my concern is that if I do my PGCE in one (e.g geography) they may overlook me for English as I didn’t do my PGCE in it.

I know they say once you have QTS you can teach any subject but how realistic is this? I’m really worried I’ll be left out of work if a PGCE in one subject over another means I can’t get a job.

I understand schools are having to become flexible but how far does this flexibility extend?

OP posts:
HmmAnonymous · 08/11/2024 08:11

MBL · 07/11/2024 22:15

It might depend where you live/want to teach. Whilst I think all subject teachers are in demand now, in our area there seems to be more demand for English specialists. And of course schools need more English teachers.

I think you are unlikely to teach A level geography as there will be a geography specialist who would likely get the nod ahead of you.

Thanks for your reply.

I completely understand I may not be first choice for geography A Level positions but do you think this is something I could work up to over time?

I love the subject and definitely want to camp students achieve the best. Might it be a case that with experience they may begin to consider me for A Level teaching?

OP posts:
ArghhWhatNext · 08/11/2024 09:06

At my DS school there are several teachers who teach a range of things not related to their degrees. These are usually social/emotional/PSHE type things or maybe KS3 in a subject where they have an A level, though there is one teacher who over the years seems to have dipped into everything because she’s very good at teaching - but it’s usually getting the more struggling children to get to grips with the basics.
The one subject where they seem to have to make do with whatever they can get is physics, not geography.
I think in your position I would do my PGCE in English, then in my spare time (!) do a part-time long distance geography degree, then offer myself as a specialist in both. Or do your geography degree first then PGCE. IF you’re really determined to teach KS5.

HmmAnonymous · 08/11/2024 09:27

ArghhWhatNext · 08/11/2024 09:06

At my DS school there are several teachers who teach a range of things not related to their degrees. These are usually social/emotional/PSHE type things or maybe KS3 in a subject where they have an A level, though there is one teacher who over the years seems to have dipped into everything because she’s very good at teaching - but it’s usually getting the more struggling children to get to grips with the basics.
The one subject where they seem to have to make do with whatever they can get is physics, not geography.
I think in your position I would do my PGCE in English, then in my spare time (!) do a part-time long distance geography degree, then offer myself as a specialist in both. Or do your geography degree first then PGCE. IF you’re really determined to teach KS5.

Thank you for your reply. I’m definitely more inclined to do my English PGCE. Teaching had not been an option I’d considered when choosing my degree but if I knew at the time I think I would’ve had a big think about which I wanted to pursue.

I’m currently in the process of contacting the provider who said they’d look into it to let them know I’m happy to remain in English over geography. I spent some time looking at geography and English jobs on TES and realise that I may limit my options since my degree isn’t in geography.

I know they say once you have QTS you can teach any subject and maybe I could teach geography at some point but English I think will provide me with more security and I can always put some maps in my classroom if I really wanted to.

I have asked the provider if it might be possible to gain some wider humanities experience if I am accepted onto the course to develop my interests further.

With my A Level in the subject, if the opportunity ever arose at a later point I would offer to teach KS3 but first I’ll need to get a firm grip on teaching English and feel secure in that.

OP posts:
ArghhWhatNext · 08/11/2024 10:33

Also just the process of teaching if that makes sense? Just knowing how to structure effective lessons, how to differentiate, how to meet the full range of needs, how to put together a programme of learning, how to manage behaviour, how to manage parents…. All those things are very similar whatever your subject. Good luck

Talipesmum · 08/11/2024 10:41

I can’t advise on the proper questions you are asking, other than to say at my son’s school they do appear to appreciate flexibility in staff and sometimes there’ll be a teacher who is computing but teaching maths or psychology, and one of the PE teachers is also a geography teacher. It might make it harder to find a role but if you could also teach geog as well as English it might be useful?

However, my main point was is you love maps, perhaps you could get involved in school DofE when you get there? Though I suspect they might be a difficult audience 🤣. Our school runs d of e with lots of teacher volunteers taking them on walks learning how to map read etc.

Also, yay for maps, do you follow “Simon shows you maps” on Facebook? Really good! I’m also a huge map fan (geologist).

MarchingFrogs · 08/11/2024 11:18

Personal experience as a parent is that I've never felt the need to question the ability of the teacher at any of our DC's secondary schools to teach the subject in hand, so have no idea if they had a master's degree in it or were actually officially a specialist in something completely different, but the sxhool had been so desperate that they'd taken on someone with just the A level and a willingness to mock in.

Experience more recently of speaking to HTs etc about the organisation of staffing at their schools and quite a few have several staff teaching outside 'their' subject, so would, I suspect be overjoyed to be offered a competent teacher with a genuine enthusiasm for a second one.

boredofbirmigham · 08/11/2024 14:30

Im d&t ... in our PGCE they took on board various people that did not have a related degree as they are very very desperate for teachers so depends on the uni really... Go to a teach to train event and ask various providers ... that's what i did b4 choosing ...anyway good luck to be a secondary teacher ... I cant wait to change job 😅

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