Help! Twins with older sibling secondary applications

[FuzzyPears]

Very last minute. Will try to keep this short. Majorly stressing over finalising secondary applications for twins.

Oldest DS is in Y9 at local very popular state school. Has mild SEN but overall not doing well there. He loves it because very sociable, but not interested in academics, poor friend choices, detentions, vaping, defiant.

Twin b/g siblings are in Y6. Twin DD has decided on local single sex as first choice. sibling school second choice. Twin DS is worried that if he puts another school first he will have no chance of getting into sibling school which he does like. It would mean three separate schools but we just want the best for each of them. Worried at how DS1 is turning out.

Would they be at the top of sibling school waiting list if they chose not to go to first preference schools? So worried about messing up and no one seems to have an answer.

Look at the admissions policy for your older sibling's school - should be on their website. The oversubscription criteria will show the priority given to siblings. The waiting list is in that order irrespective of when the child goes on the waiting list.

Your chance of getting a place of the waiting list depends on where the child is on the list and people declining a place. Any declined place is offered to the child at the top of the waiting list. Very difficult to know what will happen for a particular school.

If I am understanding right you are worried that by putting another school first you won't be offered the sibling link school at all?

It doesn't matter which order you put the choices on - if twin DS meets the criteria he will be offered a place at that school. The actual schools have no idea of your preference order and they apply their admission criteria to your application without other info other than address; sibling etc.

So in order of preference:
other school twin DS likes
School older sibling is at
Any other school you have all chosen.

If twin DS meets the criteria for second choice school he will offered a place and usually sibling priority is one of the criteria (but you need to check that with the school).
If he is offered a place at the other preferred school, and that is first on your list, then he will be offered that place as it is higher on your list.

Yes what @HavfrueDenizKisi says - twin ds listing school C first makes no difference to chance of getting school listed second.

Your last question is about if they chose not to go to first choice schools (if allocated) - this would depend if there was a place tbh. If you reject the offered place it’s risky. They would perhaps be top of the WL but a space may never come up. But why would they reject offers from their first choice schools?

In our experience, as we accepted the first choice offer, we didn't get the chance to know if we were qualified for the second choice school, as the council automatically filtered us out for progressing any further with the second choice.

Not sure if we could have declined the first choice offer and what would have happened if so.

Does sibling school has a sibling category? If so, they will be put in that category regardless of where they list it.

Preferences only come into play if they qualify for more than one school.

You need to decide which school you prefer now, and put them in that order.

If you change your mind after places are offered, and decline the one you've been offered, you they're not obliged to offer you anything else - and they may have allocated all the places at your second and third choices.

I'm not sure I would have offered the kids a choice. Three kids in three different schools sounds like a logistical nightmare.

Definitely put them in the order you prefer. There are no tactics needed. You are no less likely to be offered school two because you put it second.

This reads like a riddle. I don’t understand one bit of this 😂

Thank you for your responses and sorry if my OP was confusing. That’s how I feel - utterly confused. So worried about making the wrong choice for each of their personalities. Twin DS is worried that no one he knows will get his first choice as it’s a highly desirable, random selection school. That’s why he wants back-up of older DS school.

I actually got hold of someone at local borough submissions and they said if he gets first choice his sibling place would be allocated to the next applicant based on distance from school. If we decline first choice, then we can request a ‘lower preference form’ and he would be placed on the waiting list at sibling school, likely near or at the top of the list, ahead of those not in original catchment. We are definitely taking a gamble. The twin part just adds more complexity.

can you talk us through why you might decline your first choice?

Because you should put the choice that genuinely is first, first. It won’t make a difference to whether you get into your second choice, if that’s not successful.

If your son doesn’t get into his first choice then putting the sibling school as second choice won’t impact his chances of getting an offer.

But if he does get in then he won’t also get an offer from the sibling school and the place won’t be held for him in case he changes his mind. That would be unfair on the child who would then end up with no choice. The system assumes that everyone puts their choices in their genuine preference order.

(Sorry - I am not sure which question you were asking.)

As I said in my last post, Twin DS is worried that no one he knows will get his first choice as it’s a highly desirable, random selection school in another borough. That’s why he wants back-up of older DS school.

Sorry, I appreciate that this doesn’t make a lot of sense. We are very limited for secondaries where we live unless you go private (even faith schools vastly oversubscribed, but I wouldn’t faith route in any case). First choice, random selection school is quite far away in a different borough, but has excellent reputation and results. Twin DS is nervous about no one he knows also being randomly selected to go. Hence, wanting the backup of DS1s school that has been very disappointing thus far.

See? Nice and easy to follow. 😭

1. Twin DS shouldn't pick a school based on where he thinks his friends will go.
2. If he is allocated a school and it turns out none of his friends are going, you will need to join the waiting list at the school he wants to go to instead
3. Do NOT turn down the place at the school he is allocated. A school you don't want is better than no school.

Best of luck!

Thank you. I think this is what the borough admissions person explained today. We don’t get first refusal while they hold a place in DS1s school. If DS2 gets first choice, his sibling place would automatically be reallocated and we’d have to apply for a lower preference place, although likely jump to the top of waiting list.

I'm assuming you've now submitted the forms? It does though sound like you've gone about this somewhat arse about face for your twins. You're the parent - you make the decision as to what is the best school for them. If they have any anxious moments about YOUR choices obvs listen to them, but then you reassure them that loads of kids will be going to that school that don't know anyone. Also that once they start secondary most primary friendships drop by the wayside anyway.

If you agree the school your twin ds has put first in the best for him, for goodness sake don't try and get him into the other school if he finds none of his friends have got in.

So the basic answer is... if he gets first choice, but changes hi mind, he can go on waiting lit for 2nd choice. There is no guarantee a place will come up.

But the important thing is SUBMIT THAT FORM NOW as the deadline is extremely close!

That was what I thought. Nope - he only gets one place. Just wouldn’t be fair on the child with no place to do it any other way.

Is the sibling school the problem for your child’s sibling or is it him? Ie do you think it is a poor school or has it just not worked out for your older one? And do the reasons that it hasn’t worked out for your older one also apply to your younger one?

He can’t have a “back up” in case he changes his mind about first choice when his friends don’t get in. You only get one offer. If he turns down first choice he’d go on a waiting list. If he would still want school 1 even if his friends don’t get in, keep it as first choice. If not, go for school 2 first.

Yeah I also don't understand this use of the term "back-up". If he gets offered his first choice school, he should accept. If he doesn't fancy it after all, you don't get the option of "Oh OK I'll take that one instead." You only get offered one place. If you refuse it you may end up with no school place (depending how popular your other choices are).

I am also hoping you have submitted the form now @FuzzyPears but if not, put the first choice in top slot.