Selection Review - Date to submit the evidences/withdrawing the application

[prakashmohan]

Hello all,

My daughter sat for the Bucks grammar school but unfortunately, couldn't get the intended score due to unexpected circumstances as her grandma passed away just a day before the test, which had a considerable impact on her test outcome. I have opted for a 'Selection Review' and I have a couple of quick questions:

1. When do we submit all the pieces of evidence, related to the 'unforeseen' circumstances? Does that include academic evidences as well from our end or school headteacher will provide them?

2. I am a bit worried, as the half-term holidays are on, and unsure if the school HT will provide the evidence on time to claim the review. What will happen if the evidence from the school is not submitted on time?

Finally, is there a way to withdraw the selection review application, I came to know that 'if the selection review' is unsuccessful it will considerably impact the appeal process as well.

Current Status: I've received an email with a link to attach the evidence, and the school HT has received a link as well.

Thanks in advance

Prakash

I'm pretty sure it has to submitted by 1st November, otherwise it won't be accepted.

All of the evidence is submitted together; academic evidence and evidence for why your daughter performed less well than expected.

The head's report is automatically sent to you, and is included in the review, but you can choose not to attach it if you don't feel it's helpful.

I'm very sorry for your loss, but need to ask - did you inform the school before the test? The head is asked if they knew of any reasons for underperformance before the test. As you will have evidence of your loss, then it should be less of a problem than a child whose parents claim they were ill (but didn't tell the school), as the panel are less likely to consider it.

Does your daughter go to a Bucks primary school? If so the head's scores for grammar suitability will be important, if she doesn't it holds less sway, as Bucks head's are asked for the ratings before the test (so an objective view), whereas out of county head's will only give the score after, so it can be more subjective

Going for an appeal instead is entirely up to you, and you are correct thst appealing after an unsuccessful review is almost certainly going to fail.

However there are downsides to appealing. If you win an appeal, your daughter won't be deemed qualified for every grammar, as you'd be appealing for an individual school (or schools).

An appeal will also take place after the first (and maybe subsequent) rounds of allocations, which means the school may be full, and therefore hard to gain a place.

If your daughter has been working at GDS and you have a few years of evidence to back this up, then a SR may be a better bet, but you'll need to act fast.

You may be able to submit the application and add the head's form later.

What was your daughter's score?

I forgot to add - include evidence of the grandmothers death (which is a significant exceptional circumstance)and last few years school reports

Do not include any evidence of non academic prowess; the panel will not consider musical or sporting achievements, nor whether your child was head girl, etc.

I can't see how you could win an appeal without succeeding at selection review Surely no appeal panel will want to set a child up to fail by sending them to a grammar school where they haven't proved their suitability.

What was her score? Unless it was very borderline, unlikely to be successful

Thanks @blackdogatmyheels @mm81736 for the details provided. Very informative. I've informed the school but unfortunately post the test, which is on 17th Sep. No, she is not going to Bucks primary school and we are based out in Hounslow. Her score is 111 and we are out of the catchment.

I have the death certificate and will attach it. She just missed her Maths score by 0.75 (24.25). I can submit the documents/evidence from my end but unsure if it will be done from the school side, as they are in half-team holidays now.

If I don't submit the documents, will it stand canceled/withdrawn? What will happen if the school submits the intended documents in that case?

Finally, what will be the real chance to get the SR successful?

Just on the last point, realistically, a selection review on 111 would be very unlikely to succeed, based on previous data - ab3fe9_07aeb5f843a5423991f1a62fa75ef8a4.pdf

last year only 6% (2/32) of reviews on 111 succeeded, as that document shows. You have a real reason she underperformed, but the evidence of her suitability will still have to be very strong on that score I think.

It's up to you to submit - the heads' report will come by email to you once they have done it, and you can choose to request not to submit it. If you don't want to do the review in the end, I would probably Live Chat with them today and tell them you don't want to proceed. The fact you haven't submitted anything should be enough, but you might want to double check.

You can then appeal post allocations - but a panel would also at that point probably question why you didn't go for a review.

Usually an appeal isn't needed after a SR as you're in the first round of allocations.

Some people would rather take their chances at appeal rather than SR, as they can introduce additional elements (such as their child is a musical maestro, or they have outstanding athletic prowess, and their preferred school is the only one that can meet it). The parents also have the chance to talk to the panel.

Failing a SR would make an appeal very difficult, if not impossible, so an appeal is used instead of SR where the child lacks the support of the school and has limited evidence of consistent academic ability.

It really is an appeal or SR decision, not both (although catchment does play into it later, but most are happy with a grammar school anyway).

@prakashmohan the fact that it was a death would mean not informing the school beforehand may not be such an issue. @PatriciaHolm is an expert on education matters, so would listen to her, as she far outweighs my knowledge (which is based on success at SR). As has been said a score of 111 is quite a way under the required score (10 marks off), although a friend of my DD had a score of 111 and also won a SR. DD was only a couple of marks off, even then I was wary.

Your child won't get a place from Hounslow anyway so I'm not sure why you would bother. Have you looked at the allocation profiles from previous years?

Bucks places are based on distance: unless you have an older sibling at a Bucks school there’s no way you could get a place there, sorry.
Make sure your CAF form has Hounslow comrehensives on it or you’ll be allocated a random undersubscribed school that may not even be local.

Rare, but can be done on occasion I think. I know someone who was unsuccessful with selection review. Child had a score close to cut off (119 I think from memory or maybe 120, so critically much closer than OPs DC) but was not at a bucks state primary and the head of the school was not supportive and had made no secret of the fact that they disliked grammar schools. They appealed after allocation date and were successful and currently at a bucks grammar.

But I have to agree with the distance thing OP. Which grammar were you aiming at a place at from Hounslow? I'm not sure you would get into any from so far away. I have a friend whose child passed for Bucks, Slough and Watford grammars, but lived in London and on offer day their child ended up with no school. Please make sure you are realistic with your application.

Thanks @PatriciaHolm @mm81736 @blackdogatmyheels @BananaDaiquiri @YouDontNeedWarpaint @Nonameoclue for your wonderful insights putting me in a clear position at this point.

I beleive it's a strong circumstantial aspect (her grandma's loss) that impacted her outcome, I'll give it a go offering the evidence from my end (by today), and hopefully get some good support from the HT as well... I know it's a tough one to succeed but beleive nothing wrong with a try even if it has a considerable impact if I wish to go for an appeal. I've also listed Hounslow based out schools in the CAF form which was submitted earlier. We are happy to relocate it if needed.

Thanks again for your great support, and glad to see these many responses in a quick time.

It's too late to relocate for Bucks schools, you had to do so by 01 September.
The main thing you need is academic evidence. You will not get a place from Hounslow. If you get through the review & move you will be considered in April (assuming you can prove that you have permanently moved & cut ties to your old property) when very few places will come up. If you go to appeal it will be even later than that. You could move & still not get a place. Then what would you do?

Agree with you @Nonameoclue. Fingers crossed. To be honest, I am unsure and clueless at the moment. I am a bit unclear with the below statement: "You will not get a place from Hounslow"

I've submitted a CAF with a school from Kent/Bucks (to start with) and the rest of them from Hounslow.

Won't I get a school from Hounslow, if Bucks/Kent schools reject due to not reaching the pass score during 1st round?

I meant you won't get a Bucks school from Hounslow.

Hmm... ok... Thanks @Nonameoclue

https://www.thebucksgrammarschools.org/files/ugd/ab3fe99_b24167d996ba4b0f91fca72fdd4ea6b8.pdf

On that - This shows, for 2024 entry, of the 2356 places offered in Bucks grammars, fewer than 5 were for pupils resident in Hounslow. All of these offers were for Burnham Grammar - none of the others Bucks grammars offered to anyone in Hounslow.

In reality, it's almost certain that that is just one or 2 children who fell into one of top priority criteria such as a previous looked after child.

So even if your selection review is successful, there is essentially no chance that you will get a Bucks place from Hounslow, assuming your child does not fall into one of the top criteria.

Some of the kent grammars offer simply on score rather than distance, but not all.

Burnham Grammar has a sibling rule!

they did offer in the past, as in 10 years ago, into West London, and 8 years ago to Uxbridge, but the allocated distance has shrunk and shrunk and now even children in central Slough do not get places unless they have an older sibling who attended or still attends the school, or are children of current staff.

The only BGS places offered to Hounslow will
be the very few children where mum/dad is a teacher, or where there is a big age gap and the older sibling gained a place way back in 2013/2014. My DD has just left the school and one of her friends was the youngest of 4, he got a place from Uxbridge purely based on his big sister having previously attended.

No sibling or staff priority = no space more than 2.4 miles from the school nowadays.

A selection review won’t help, so please
be realistic. I hope your DC gets another choice.

Thanks a lot, @PatriciaHolm and @YouDontNeedWarpaint for sharing more details. I know it's extremely difficult, let's see how it goes. Thanks, everyone for your time responding to my queries. Greatly appreciated and very helpful.

She just missed her Maths score by 0.75 (24.25).

I thought Bucks only gives the standardised scores, not the raw scores?

that’s right. No-one gets raw scores.
just English and Maths and NVR.
they are standardised
the English is 50% of the mark, Maths and NVR 25 % each.

it adds up to a total: to get 121 you’d need to score 30.25 from Maths, 30.25 from NVR
and 60.50 from English (as it is weighted double)

unlike some other exams you don’t have to pass 2 or 3 sections: so a high English score can compensate for a lower Maths and/or NVR.

Hi @PatriciaHolm-sorry to divert the post. would like to get your valuable input on selection review process-
I have twin daughters and one of them qualified in bucks 11 plus and another got 118(120 in Verbal, 118 in maths and 114 in NVR) We have submitted selection review with head teacher score of 2:1 and GDS in all areas by end of year 6 and recommended for grammar school. My DD is Nov born but preterm 2 months before, expected first of Jan. We have called this out during review document for age standarisation.We have not called out the details of twin who qualified as we wanted to focus only on the twin who missed out. Would it add value if another twin details were mentioned. is it mandate to get 121 in at least any 2 elements of Math/Verbal/NVR?

Hey just want to find out, did you have to wait for the head teacher to respond to the link sent to them before you could proceed with your submission and upload files? I get errors trying to upload documents to process the selection review but the head teacher is yet to respond. Thanks!