Number of GCSES

[gcsedilemma]

My DD (15) is in year 11 and will be doing 10 iGCSEs in the summer.

She is currently floundering under the sheer weight of it all.

Her school is academically selective and there are a lot of super bright kids heading for straight 9s. She used to be fine, but covid took its toll and she's now near the bottom of the cohort.

I suppose I just want some perspective. I understand that the top/top universities will require straight 9s at GCSE, but what about those in say the middle range like UEA/York/Bath/ some of the London universities?

I know this is obviously course dependent and say Bath might be top for some subjects but not others.

But in general terms, would say eight GCSEs at grade 6/7 be ok at a mid range university?

8 GCSEs at G6-7 is still top performer in the real world of comprehensives. She’ll be fine but do look at what she may want to do next at college or 6th form and their entry requirements. Our local college asks for 8 and for a G6 min in the A level you wish to study. Plus G8 ideally if it’s Maths, they will let you in with less but then cull 20% off the course at the end of year 1 if they can’t pass the AS levels. Another six form locally doesn’t have these entry requirements.

Her school requires a minimum of 6 at grade 6 with 7s in certain subjects.

The A levels she's interested in are not studied at GCSE.

I just wondered what the stance of universities was, bearing in mind they will only have predicted A level grades at the time of application

Most universities don't care about GCSE grades beyond expecting passes in English and maths (and sometimes Science). But check for individual universities and courses.

I think your perception is skewed by your DC being at a very high achieving school. Other than very top universities and very competitive courses, 8 GCSEs at 6/7 would be perfectly normal. (My daughter is at York without a string of 9s if it helps).

Hey OP I am sorry that your DD is struggling – it is a lot and tbh I think that year 11 in a lot of ways is worse than sixth form in terms of number of exams and the weight of it all.

I understand that the top/top universities will require straight 9s at GCSE

I don't know who has told you this but luckily it’s not true. In 2019 – the last normal year really – fewer than 1000 students got all 9s at GCSE (this is those taking 7 or more GCSEs at one time). Now that number would nowhere near fill one year at Oxford uni, supposing they all wanted to go there.

No university in the UK requires all 9s at GCSE. Oxford and to some extent Cambridge, along with some other unis for most competitive subjects, might well require (say) GCSEs at 7-9. Even then, a mate of DS2's went to Cambridge with a grade 6.

Yes, if your DD gains mostly 6s and 7s then she is probably not looking at Oxford or LSE. But that's fine. She can still go to a great uni.

You say that the A levels she is interested in are not studied at GCSE - it’s likely that a school will still require a certain grade (6 or 7) in some similar subjects – so for (say) sociology, a grade 6 or 7 in Eng lit or history.

I would caution slightly against three totally new subjects tho (and see lots of other threads on this) – what if she doesn't enjoy them? Why does she not want to continue to study even one of her GCSE subjects? And also three new subjects will close a number of doors – as I presume that means not sciences, not maths, not Eng lit or MFL or history or art or geography or music – all of which pretty much are needed at A level to study certain subjects at uni.*

Obvs you don't need all* of those A levels to study at uni – but I mean to do engineering or maths at uni you need maths, to take MFL you need MFL, to take Eng lit you need Eng lit - etc.

There are very few pupils who get 10 or more straight 9s (around 700 in the entire country this year). The majority of students at even the top universities have not got straight 9s.

This is very reassuring!

She is looking at a combination of three out of classical civilisation/economics/art history/business studies/psychology/law

Very undecided as yet, but extremely enthusiastic about any combination of the above. She sees it as a fresh start after losing her way (and never quite catching up with her peers) following Covid.

I'm not sure she'll get any 8s or 9s to be honest, but I think dropping a couple of subjects might ensure she gets 6s and 7s.

My son is first year at UCL with 6 GCSE's, his highest grade was 8 but the rest were 6's and a 5.

He was also interviewed at Oxford.

Unless there are course specific requirements GCSE's really won't matter.

Edited to add he is studying history at UCL and has very similar interests to your DC having done history, classics and psychology A levels.

@lifeturnsonadime
This has made my day. Thank you!

She loves London (although we live here so not sure how that might work in terms of a university "experience") but UCL is a great university and so pleased that this could be within her grasp.

I agree with @clary about being cautious about taking three untried subjects. DD started with 4 A level subjects, one of them being psychology, which she hated. She dropped it at the end of year 12.

There is another thread in higher education for parents of DC who aren't aiming at Oxbridge/top 10 universities that you might like to have a look at.

Obviously it will be dependent on predicted A Level grades. DS is very good at history and essay based subjects, Psychology was a bit of an outlier for him as it is less essay/ more science/ maths based. But by the time uni applications were made he was predicted 3 A*s at A level.

It is probably end of year 12 predicted grades and teachers references at that stage that matter more, or as much as, the GCSE grades.

For my DS it wasn't until end of year 12 that his teachers realised his potential BUT his less than stellar GCSE's definitely did not hold him back.

There was also context for his GCSE results, that being said he still wasn't eligible for contexualised offers.

Obviously your thread was on number of GCSEs required for acceptance on a course and I do think that they are less significant than many people think they are, with the exception of Oxford who acknowledge that they are contextually factored into their admissions process.

@RampantIvy my DS had 2 'untried' A Levels, psychology was one of them. I wouldn't personally let the untried part put you off if there is an interest. It didn't hold my DS back. He didn't 'love' psychology but still achieved a top grade through hard work from the outset. I think his teacher was gutted he didn't love it and follow through to uni.

All of those are good subjects for sure. Quite a range though. I appreciate she wants a fresh start but that feels a bit scattergun. Is she really passionate about all those – and not any of the GCSE subjects that would link with them? Would she not like to add in Eng lit or history – something she knows she likes? Economics and psych go well with maths or other sciences; class civ is really good with history.

All those subjects are fine in terms of uni, as in all unis will accept any of those. What might she look to do at uni?

She's passionate about two of them but thought my thread might be too outing!

In the summer of 2024, in England, only 1270 16yo students achieved 'all nines' at GCSE and only 14% sat 10 or more GCSEs in one sitting. Link below provides more detail. The stats most likely do not include iGCSEs but you get the picture.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-gcse-results-2024/infographics-for-gcse-results-2024

My son is applying for medicine. Of the unis that consider GCSEs (most don’t beyond at least a 6 in maths and English) they look at their best 7 or 8. I'm think she’d be much better off with stronger grades in 8 than weak grades in 10.

@lifeturnsonadime As DD was taking three other subjects she found the content heavy volume of work of psychology too much. She enjoyed her other three subjects more and needed them more. Interestingly, psychology had more students dropping or swapping it than any other subject.

Her teacher was disappointed because she achieved an A at AS level, and she told her she was throwing away an A*.

Dropping the subject meant that DD improved the grades on two other subjects so it was the right decision.

Yes psychology is very content heavy and is not a soft option.

I think a lot of students are surprised by that.

Sounds like the right decision for your DD!

UCL and Bath are both top 10 in the Times list at the moment, in a list of 130 institutions. They are not by any means mid range. Realistically if she is hoping for 6/7s at GCSE she should keep the door open to a wider range of unis. It does depend on subject but it would likely be wise to be looking at unis that include at least Bs in their standard offers.

That said it really does seem to be all about A levels. Doing 10 is pretty brutal come exam time. The benefit of doing more is mainly that they gain wider background knowledge in my view, not that it gets them a competitive advantage in most cases. Mental health is everything and it's not unusual for Y11s to drop some subjects to help them cope. It often turns on whether there is somewhere for her to go during her missing lessons. Maybe if she is at private school that is not an issue.

Anecdotally my daughter has found the step up from GCSE English Lit to A level far harder than starting Psychology from scratch. Psych is her easy subject - content heavy, but has needed less skill development I suppose. Maybe it just suits her strengths more. Friends who are doing Politics, sociology and law all rate them as their favourite subjects. I can see that the advice not to do all new subjects probably is sensible, but my daughter would, I think, have suited more of these new subjects rather than keeping with the somewhat illusory familiarity (but massive step up) of English and History.

@Greenary

I think keeping a range of options open is a good idea but my DS started UCL this year with 6 GCSEs (not top grades only one 8 in his chosen subject).

They seemed much more interested in predicted A Level grades and teacher references/ personal statement, than the GCSE results.

Completely shocked me as I thought his GCSEs would mean they wouldn't be interested given that they are 'selective' and sought after due to the ranking/ status.

@lifeturnsonadime by 6/7s I meant grades 6 and 7, not 6 or 7 GCSEs, as per OP.

I know 6 GCSEs is plenty, but if she is getting grades of 6 and 7 with support then she shouldn't assume she'll be on track for the full set of As and A stars at A Level that some courses at the unis mentioned would require. If she is then great. But not everyone who gets 6s and 7s at GCSE will successfully convert them into As and Astars.

Sorry misunderstood.

GCSE grades are not always a predictor of A Levels though, as you no doubt know.

My son was expected to get CCC based on the algorithm from his GCSE grades but got 3 As at A Level. Pulled his finger out when it mattered.

That is amazing, well done him! My daughter got all 8s and 9s at GCSE but A level's no walk in the park and she is very nervous of the pressure of AAA+ offers.

This is such a helpful thread. I still find it incredible that so few people get all 9s, I feel like every smug parent I meet is bragging about their child acing every exam! Maybe some of them are exaggerating.

All the best to her. it is stressful, especially with the pressure for top places.

Psych is her easy subject - content heavy, but has needed less skill development I suppose

I think this is true. DD said that she didn't find psychology challenging in terms of difficulty. It was the volume of boring content that she hated. I think the school covered the boring stuff in year 12 and did the more interesting stuff in year 13.

The school had told DD that she had to start with 4 subjects and psychology was the one that interested her the most until she started her A level studies. Her other subjects were more relevant to what she wanted to do so dropping psychology was a no brainer.

As others have said, no university requires straight 9s or even straight 8/9s. Who told you that? Was it a teacher? Appealing to put a teenager under such pressure.

6-9s are perfectly fine even for top level courses, the only distinction would be maths where students without 8/9 at GCSE will likely struggle to keep up at A level.