What’s more important primary or secondary education?

[MissTS]

We can only afford to pay for our child to do private education for either primary OR secondary school, not both.

I was wondering what people think is more important and why?

i appreciate many of you may think private is completely unnecessary but that’s not what’s being asked!

TIA

Depends on your local options. Eg what are results and ethos like at secondary? Are there selective options?

We planned to send DC to a non selective independent secondary which gets decent results as our local secondaries are dire (unless you get into grammar which felt like a lot pressure). We are quite laid back and subscribed to bright children doing well anywhere however we had to withdraw DC half way through year 5 as the behaviour at our local school became shocking, 2 form tutors resigned in 2 terms and so the class were being taught by a TA and they were nowhere close to covering the year 5 curriculum. By shocking behaviour I mean 9 year olds bullying, vaping, assaulting teachers and swearing (“fuck off you old cunt”).

The experiences in the prep are so different and DC is a much happier little boy with lots of nice friends and has come on leaps and bounds. I’m confident if he had started out in his current school he would be in contention for selective grammar or would be academic scholarship material because he’s got the quality of teaching is better and there is minimal disruption. He’s still going to do well but if I had my time again I’d have picked prep or at least done “state until 8”

They're both important, obviously, and also obviously it depends on what your local private and state options are. There's good and bad in both sectors! And also, again obviously, it depends on the character and abilities of each particular child.

So there's probably not much advice that anyone can give you without more details.

We are 99% sure DC will go to a private secondary from decent state primary, however we are already doing additional work (yr 5) to make sure they aren’t behind in yr 7 as there if definitely a gap which seems to be widening between the kids we know who are already there (all through school) and DC. There’s also the matter of an entrance exam which those already at the school are exempt from.

Well for a start private secondary is usually a lot more expensive so you need to carefully count that cost. It will depend on your local state offer, impossible to say which is more important as they both are.

I think you need to consider the adjustment and acceptance side too. If you send your child to a prep school, then to a state secondary that might be quite a change (probably easier in a grammar school as they are selective - if that is your thing and your child were able to secure a place!) - and I imagine that they could potentially be bullied if other pupils know they were in a private school, or it they sound or act as if they have. I think the adjustment is probably easier the other way around (and less chance of bullying) if they go to state primary and then to independent secondary. I know children who have done this and it hasn't been a problem.

It depends on your local options and child.

But I'd say you are equally likely to get a qualified teacher in primary in either sector, but you are less likely to get a specialist subject teacher in state secondary. So I would lean towards private for secondary.

In terms of education itself - without a decent, basic understanding of literacy, grammar and numeracy a child isn't going to be able to access secondary education, so obviously the primary school is important.

But in terms of choosing one or the other as private schooling, I would bear in mind that it's difficult enough going from primary to secondary, without the added difficulty of moving from private to state. I think that may be quite traumatic for a child. There will also be more options in terms of choosing a primary school than a secondary (ie an area may have 6 primaries but only 2 secondaries).

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea To be fair that depends on location. In London it's quite common to go to private from a state primary, but I imagine in other areas probably not so much.

I’m in the same situation as you OP. I’ve had some advice about it and the consensus is that if you can only afford one or the other then secondary school is the better investment.

Depends on your local schools
We have excellent state primaries but dire secondary so did state until end Yr 6 and are doing indy Yr 7-11.
She can choose for Yrs 12 + 13

Remember at primary they are influenced by teachers + parents, at secondary they are most influenced by their peers

I'd be interested to see your evidence for that? My DSs have both been educated at a fairly average state comp and they have never been taught by a teacher who did not specialise in the subject taught (apart from the odd cover lesson obviously.) This includes all the usual subjects as well as music and drama.

I can't say the same for some of their friends at local fee-paying schools.

I don't like the way you framed your question, but I'm not going to get involved in that.

In my opinion, early years and primary are without doubt the most important years in any child's education.

Secondary

can you imagine a kid going to a state comp after primary?! What a shock to the system

Yes. I was saying that although everyone needs a good grounding, if picking one or other for private then I wouldn't advocate moving from private primary to state secondary. But I probably didn't put it very well .

I work in two secondaries and my son went to a third and they have had huge difficulties in recruitment and retention. Lots of subjects have non specialists, particularly in years 7 and 8. The school workforce census looks at this and there are stats like 1 in 5 physics lessons are taught by non specialists. So I'd say it's quite well documented in the state sector that schools are struggling with specialist. But of course will vary school to school.

I dont really have any evidence for private education to be fair, other than knowing that the local schools websites say that all thier subjects are taught by specialist and a lot put thier teachers credentials on the website. But I am sure this does vary too.

It was just something to check/consider when looking at individual schools rather than a hard and fast rule.

Secondary definitely.

your child should learn and hopefully happy wherever that is

Seriously?😂

My dd went to a private junior school. We looked at a range of secondaries, we're in catchment for a comp which we certainly could have imagined her going to! As it was she got a place at a grammar school - and afaik no one who got a place at any of the few GSs in our area turned them down in favour of private... apart from one which was a long bus ride the ones hereabouts aren't that good.

I don't think anyone who doesn't know your local schools and child can answer this. Look at your local schools and look at which you think would and wouldn't suit your child's needs. Look at the relevant benefits of the private versus state in both primary and secondary for your area. I think the affects of both schools very much depend on the schools around. For example a shy child might thrive in a small state primary just as much as they would thrive in a small private primary, but they might struggle in a big state secondary, but not struggle in a small private secondary. Conversely a small primary might give lots of support as they begin their education journey, but a small private secondary might offer less GCSE options than a big state primary!

he would be in contention for selective grammar or would be academic scholarship material because he’s got the quality of teaching is better and there is minimal disruption

I think that people make mistake assuming that in grammar schools ( selective) is like in selective private.

I think both are important. School choice depends on the child, the local schools and parental values. Most people in your position with an academic child who want to spend their money on education seem to take one of 2 paths:

1)Private prep followed by super- selective grammar (need to be in catchment or move if necessary.

2)Good/outstanding state primary followed by selective private for secondary.

Some move their children from state to private at 16 or vice versa as long as state is very good as they think it might increase oxbridge chances or they/ the children want a change of scenery.

Basically it is very rare ime for someone to move a child from prep primary to a good local state comp. I think once you've bought into private at junior school level it's very difficult to get comfortable with the idea of a comp secondary education especially with the peer pressure of all the other kids going to St Paul's/Wilsons etc etc

My kids will be state all the way btw as cannot afford private and I'm in London if that makes a difference!

Look I’m not here for a fight but that’s an irritating comment. I’ve said the same as everyone else that it depends on the child and the schools available etc.

But I’m not mistaken about anything. My child has moved to at a prep with a history of sending children to super selective grammar schools in London. Our school advised us that our DC showed aptitude to do the same in that context.

The school is a non selective prep and not pushy. Super selective grammar in London is not aspirational for me as it appears to be very full on and not a lot of fun. In any case it wasn’t for us anyway because DC had been through enough changing school and I didn’t want him to work in the summer holidays - no child can succeed in those exams without preparation.

He’s a bright child but we put up with a lot of disruption at state primary, partly because we were squeamish about private school and guilty about opting out of our local community because we have money. We know he’ll be fine but I also know there would be more choice and opportunities if he had moved sooner.

If you have in your location outstanding secondaries with excellent GCSE results then going private is not a value for money.

But it often is at a primary level even if you have around good primaries. You have to calculate the cost of wrap around childcare after 3 pm collection, cost of breakfast club, cost of swimming, add cost of clubs, cost of meals at school.
If you add it all and compare with the fee you will pay for private school that includes it all in the price then you may find that it is not that expensive.

Why are you talking so much about your child? What has that got to do with my comment?
What is it that irritated you?
I just stated that private school is nowhere similar to grammar schools. And that has nothing to do with your child. That is the fact.

You quoted me referring to the process I’ve gone through with my child and suggested I’d made a mistake in my advice to OP. 🙄

I didn’t. I shared my experience in good faith. There’s no right or wrong answer to OPs question so I’d hope that it’s helpful for her to hear about other people experiences when she’s weighing up what she wants to do.

It really is not factual that “private school is nowhere similar to grammar schools.” As I said I know plenty of families who are sitting both types of exam, see the appeal of both types of school and what they are looking for in a school could be met by either.

I’m not going to go back and forth with you any more. Sorry for a derail OP!