University Technical Colleges

[mimblewimble]

Hi, we are considering a UTC for ds when he goes up to year 10 next year. Does anyone have experience of these?

It has a Good Ofsted, we've looked round and the facilities are excellent, GCSE results seem fine but mixed reports about intake/behaviour. It's an engineering specialist and has very good links to industry, and the local university.

Education wise it would suit DS perfectly. He's always known what he wants to do, and it would mean he can focus on STEM subjects. He's very keen but I'm worried about him moving from a school with a good reputation where he's settled and has friends.

I know without knowing the exact school people can't really say, but just wondered about general experiences of these types of school. (Found some old threads but nothing recent.)

Thanks!

They are very very varied.

A lot were opened but only a few survived.

Because they take in at a non standard point they do tend to get children who are not satisfied with their current school.

If you are looking at stem and engineering a levels and then uni would be the standard path. Is there a reason you are not keen on that?

He will almost certainly go to uni, and plenty of students seem to go on to university, at least from what the school is telling us. They offer GCSEs, A levels and some vocational qualifications, so they can do a mix, or just GCSEs/A levels but with STEM subjects options for those that our current school doesn't offer.

The reason he wants to go is that if he stays where he is a lot of his timetable will be subjects he doesn't like and sees no point in. At the UTC he can literally replace geography and RE with electronics and engineering GCSEs.

I'd go for it. I mean my first thought was uprooting him from somewhere he's settled and happy, just to get a few different GCSEs which probably won't matter once he has other relevant qualifications would be stupid, but if he isn't happy and settled now, I'd go for it.

Yeah this is the tricky thing - he seems quite settled where he is, but he hasn't always been, and despite doing well academically and having nice friends and some great teachers, he has consistently told us he doesn't like his secondary school.

I would go through gcse and a level results with a fine tooth comb, and a very careful look at destinations too. There are ( a few ) good ones, but most are taking kids that are at best disillusioned with their current school ( I am putting that politely)
Almost certainly he would be better off staying where he is, and sucking up having to do a couple of cgses he isn’t over enamoured with.

I would personally avoid them like the plague. They need bums on seats as so few people go to them and they will sell them to you. Putting all you eggs in one basket at such a young age isn't great either. There's so much general knowledge to be learnt in subjects like geography and RE that go a long way to being a more rounded kid, UK specialises too early as it is.
Kids change so so much as well in those couple of years, he really might regret specialising so early and by the time uni rolls around, he will have done 4 years of engineering and not fancy 3 more. He will also 100% be surrounded by kids who aren't great company. I'm sure there's going to be some who are fine, but by an large if your son is at all easily led, I would not do this, esp if he finally seems settled with some friends. Most kids say they hate their secondary school too.

The eggs in one basket aspect is not a concern to us at all. I can see the argument for most kids (including his sibling) but in his case it has been very obvious since he was a toddler what his strengths and interests are. He's very similar to his dad too, who works in a STEM industry. In terms of the subjects covered this would be perfect for him.

It's more the general standards/culture and whether they attract too many kids with behaviour issues etc. I've heard such mixed things.

I don't think he's easily led, I think he'd find the other geeky kids and stick with them as he has done at the current school.

I'm just saying losing all subjects except for eng, maths, science, stem at 12/13, isn't a very broad education. He may well never change his mind about stem and that's fine, but there is good in learning a bit more geo and re, even if it's to make you a slightly more rounded person or just to stick with something you don't necessarily love but gives you a bit more general knowledge.
I can't imagine there's many nerds at UTCs tbh, they really don't have a good reputation, mostly like PRUs with more subjects. The nerds will be sticking to getting as many 9s as they can in their GCSEs and moving onto grammars or other selective STEM schools.

You should look at the schools data on ofsted.

So for example of the utc near me, Cambridge, this is their data:

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/140265/cambridge-academy-for-science-and-technology/secondary/results-by-pupil-characteristics?accordionstate=0|1

In their most recent year 11 there were 105 students of which only 25 were high attainers.

As others have said, you are more likely to find the geeks and nerds in the local state school, not at a utc.

Hi my son has just started at one but for year 12, we found the GCSEs option too small for years 10/11 and they had no out door space so had to be buses else where for pe so ruled it out for starting then. Our school is very strict on attendance, uniform and behaviour. To get into sixth form we had to prove he had good attendance, behaviour from old school

I don't know if ours is unusual then - there were lots of students showing us round at the open day, and I'd say they all seemed like lovely nerds 😁 Obvs the ones with real behaviour issues are not going to be chosen to represent the school, but it's a small school and they seemed to have a few nice students helping out in each classroom/area.

I will see if I can find any insiders to tell me an estimated breakdown of STEM nerds to Troublemakers!

I've looked at the GCSE results and other stats now. They perform less well than his current school, but on a level with another local secondary that we had considered. I have an older child at the current school too, and one of our main criticisms has been that it is soooo focused on getting good results, that they just seem to constantly test them and prep them for tests. It's been pretty stressful.

The UTC has about 70% of the 6th form going on to university. And 70% getting A*-C at A level, which sounds ok to me?

@mimblewimble I wouldn't say 70% A-C at A Level is that great tbh esp for a small and specialist school. Also, how many of those kids joined in y12 and now many in Y10? I get that schools pile the pressure on for GCSEs, DD is in Y11 now and feeling it, but genuinely there's a reason for that. The jump to A Levels is massive and the academic push at GCSE is necessary, not just for the knowledge but also for the resilience and work ethic it teaches them, which is really needed in A Levels. If they're going onto BTEC it's different as it's module based, but the vast amount of content in A Levels makes them really inaccessible to kids who don't have a good foundation from GCSEs. That's why I would query how many of those that pass A Levels, are actually from the Y10 cohort, and how many joined in Y12, having had that GCSE boost.
You may well be lucky and have access to a very good UTC, I've never seen one myself but I would be going through those results with a fine tooth comb, and asking for numbers of suspensions etc.

@Foxesandsquirrels when you say you've never seen a good one, have you had experience dealing with them/ working in them in some capacity?

DS is currently dead set on going there, I'm trying to encourage him to stay open minded...

my nephew went to a science focussed UTC after a few years at a dismal comp that went into special measures when he was there. He was much happier at the UTC, atmosphere and behaviour were much better than his old school.

I didn't work in one, I worked as a visiting dyslexia teacher so saw a fair number of schools, and SEN kids tend to struggle with GCSE years so a fair few go to 14-16 provision in colleges or things like UTC. The ones in my area of London have basically all closed down. I don't know if the teaching itself was bad, but I do think most kids don't move schools at that stage unless their secondary school is just not working for them for whatever reason. Having a cohort full of kids who struggled at their previous school for whatever reason, usually undiagnosed SEN or social care issues, would be difficult for any school to handle.
I also would be very very wary about moving a child that was struggling and is finally settled, as that's what it sounds like has been the case for your son. Don't underestimate how long it takes for kids like that to settle and bear in mind that even engineering and electricity have very boring modules.
Also check what exam boards they use for science, most comps start science GCSE in Y9 as it's so content heavy, and if this UTC uses a different exam board, he'll be at a disadvantage.
The other aspect is social, these UTC tend to attract mainly boys and a very specific type, it's well known that boys do better in a coed environment. The year groups also bond so much in Y10 and Y11, unless he goes to something after school that has lots of girls, he would be really limiting himself socially.
He is very very young OP, and even if my child had access to a great UTC, I wouldn't do it till y12 unless I absolutely had to for the reasons I've listed, but also many more.

This is a scenario where I can definitely see it being good, people don't realise quite how 'bad' bad schools are. It doesn't sound like OPs son is in one of those though.

What is their A* to B % at A level, as that is the one normally quoted. Quoting to C suggests to me they aren’t getting many over the crucial B/C border. The % to uni is pretty meaningless without a lot more context in terms of where, and what courses.

I have two friends with children that go to UTCs and both have said it was the making of them. They struggled with it being a big move for the kids and the unknown of how they'd get on, but said that because they're smaller schools they're way more focused because they get to do the subjects they really love and it's more like a community where everyone knows everyone's name and they've thrived. I know they talk a lot about where the students go off to after studying there because of the close employer links so that sounds a bonus. Sounds like you've been there and got a good feel for it. Why not go in on a usual school day and see it then and make a judgement.

I did ask if I could look round during the school day, and they weren't keen - which made me suspicious! But appreciate if all the parents did that it would be chaos...

@Foxesandsquirrels thank you for your detailed answer and suggestions. Definitely food for thought.

His current secondary school is not a failing school - it's considered one of the best in the city. However, we always knew it would not be the best fit for DS as it is just so big and very pressured. If his sister wasn't already there we would probably have applied elsewhere for him in y7.

He is actually autistic so if lots of other autistic kids go to these schools then that could be a bonus!

I would be suspicious of a school not allowing visits during the day. Most schools seem to handle it even if it’s by doing book onto an Open morning and I would ask again. Unless the school is very oversubscribed, then most seem to want to do everything they can to get numbers. (If it is very oversubscribed and they’re not worried, then it’s much less of red flag as it’s more than they don’t need to rather than they’re hiding something.)

Ok so have found out more about the school by contacting someone who works there, and also spoke to a parent of a current student. It's very interesting because people with direct, current experience of this school seem to be very positive!

• It is oversubscribed.

• They have a new head who is very experienced and who everyone seems to like.

• There are some disruptive kids sent from other schools, but they reckon about half of the students are geeky types who love STEM. There are a lot of 'lads' too, so kind of a split between the two, but no issues with bullying and it's not a 'naughty' school. Most of the kids want to be there and behave well because of that, some of the less academic ones are happy in school for the first time. It sounds well supervised and they crack down on bad behaviour pretty quickly. Apparently a lot of them are playing board games or chess at break time...

• The pastoral/SEN support focuses on taking disruptive kids out of lessons and working with them on any issues, but it's a v small team so there is not a lot in terms of SEN support.

• There are lots of enrichment activities and really really good links with industry and the local (Russell Group) university.

Honestly I don't know what to think! I'm going to write everything down as pros and cons, and then just park it for a while, see how the next few months of Y9 go, see whether any of his friends choose to go there etc.

I was considering this for our DS (in Y9) who is smart but struggling at school with ADHD, but I don't think it's the answer, as he doesn't have a vocation he's attracted to and also there are none anywhere near us that look well rated. Most of all though I see the closing date is ten days away and it's not enough time to make that call.

@mimblewimble did you apply in the end?My son has just been offered a place in one and he'll be taking it.

We are lucky and this one seems to be the opposite to what @foxesandsquirrels has found:

• every year since it's second year it has been very over-subscribed.
• it is the top school in the area and the 6th form is in the top 15 in the country including fee paying schools. I know, "top school" is vague and somewhat meaningless but it's the recognised ranking system.
• believe me when I say I have searched for negative reviews / experiences and I have really struggled. The best I can find is the lack of outdoor space.
• no outdoor space but there is a gym 10mins walk away which is one of the partners. My son loves the gym and will walk past the gym on his way to/from school so he's happy with that. I'll admit it's not ideal.
• it's a STEAM school, not STEM so includes more art stuff eg photography
• plus they insist the kids attend at least one hobby so they are "more rounded" and have things they can talk about that isn't school
• the facilities are amazing! The partners have ploughed so much money into this and are really active sponsors. It helps because the area has a lot of world-recognised STEM empployers.
• attendance and grades are outliers in the area.
• lower attainers improve significantly. Higher attainedrs improve a bit. My son is quite capable of 8/9s and is currently averaging 6-8s so I'm hoping it will help pull him up.
• he is dyslexic. I am concerned about the support such a small school can offer but tbh he isn't getting what he needs from his current school anyway.
• since he was small we've had him doing hobbies like scouts, swimming etc so that he meets people he wouldn't meet at school. I am concerned that the longer days will mean he doesn't want to keep these hobbies up and his exposure to different types of people will shrink.
• the career progression path stats are misleading. If you get the GCSEs you are automatically offered a place in the 6th form or there are apprenticeship places that are specifically offered to the school. If you get the 6th form results you are automatically offered a place at the local university (one of the partners) or there are some apprenticeships. So it's not really a true reflection.
• he has only just found reliable friends in his current school. I am worried that he will be back to having no friends and the small size/more intense education will mean it's really hard for him to make more.
• there are lots of girls so I wouldn't say it's overly boy heavy.

Overall we think it will be a good move for him. If he was completely happy in his current school then it would be a bigger decision but I don't think (hope!) he'll be worse off. His current STEM teachers think it's a good fit for him.

Ach. That was long.

@Polkadotbikininini We did apply and are waiting to hear whether he's offered a place.

I've spoken to a few different people with direct experience of working there or having kids there, and I don't have any concerns now based on that. I went to another open evening and was impressed with the headteacher.

I think it could be a really good move that could be the making of DS, but it's also a big risk due to so many unknowns. We haven't definitely decided either way. I checked and until he actually sets foot there in September he'd still have a place at his current school.