APS or CGS

[nlondonmummy123]

Seems like DD (currently Y5) might have a decent shot at getting into CGS (Camden Girls School) with music, but we are in catchment for APS (Alexandra Park School). Wondering if it's worth putting her through the MAT test preparation etc, since APS is supposedly such a good school? She's quite keen on a girls-only school, and doesn't mind the commute (it's not a huge one for us). She also likes the no-uniform vibe. But just wondering if anyone has experience of both these schools? What is the music provision like at APS vs CGS? I'd imagine better at CGS, but both are (underfunded) state schools, so what is the actual reality here?

How can the commute to CSG not be huge if you're also in APS catchment?

It's a few stops on a train and then a fairly short bus ride. Sure, it's more than walking 10 mins to school, but I think a lot of secondary school kids travel further...

If you're that close to the train station I don't think you'd get into APS by that's by the by. The schools are like chalk and cheese. What does your DD respond well to? Extreme strictness (some kids love it) or a more liberal approach? It'll be two very very different experiences and it's unlikely there's a child that would like both. It doesn't really matter how good the music and other things are, if your child is miserable they won't use those facilities anyway. Plus if they're good enough to try for a music place it's likely they're playing to a high level and will continue to do so, whether that's through something like colourstrings or Haringey Music Service. Saying that, music is good in both places. APS has lots of opportunities but things are incredibly oversubscribed due to the amount of kids that can afford everything. My friends son tried to get onto the ski trip for 4 years, never went. Same for other things. I'd recommend HHS over APS for that reason. From what I heard the teaching below sixth form level at CSG isn't anything to rave about, a lot of the attainment is it's intake tbh and the girls are competitive with each other and keen to achieve, to the point where the sensitive ones can struggle. That's the case at APS too but I'd say their teaching is better. APS is incredibly, incredibly strict though, much more than HHS, and I thought they were strict. Some kids LOVE this and would hate how liberal and cramped CSG is. Once you get to sixth form, both schools change a lot too, so don't judge them on that.

She'd definitely get into APS, unless something very odd happened in her intake year, where we are is always in catchment (admittedly on the edge though). Never really considered HHS, we will go and have a look around there as well when they have their open days. She probably doesn't need the extreme strictness of APS as is self motivated etc, though I don't think she would necessarily hate it (I guess it's hard to know until they're in that actual situation though).

I suppose that is why I asked this, to see if anyone had first hand experience of both schools. I think Camden looks slightly better on paper in terms of GCSE's, but she'll do well wherever she goes, so not sure pursuing the music angle is particularly worthwhile?

I've recently moved from the area. The road I was in was about 7-8 minutes walk to the station and was in the catchment area for APS. I don't have kids but from the uniforms of the neighbours kids they were all at APS. One of my neighbours had two kids (boy and girl) in a 2 bed flat in juniors but was staying put to get her kids in there despite being a bit overcrowded. It was also a selling point when we sold our flat.

The music places at CGS are fiercely competitive.

There were hundreds taking the MAT the year DD took it. They then only invited the 50 top scorers back for the performance part.

I don't think you can ever rely on a music aptitude place - there are far too many variables. Which instrument you play, what the competition is like that year etc.

You also can't really prep for the MAT part.

Yes, I have heard this, which is why I'm wondering if it's worthwhile doing, considering the alternatives we have are so good. Her teacher thinks she has a good chance, but of course you never know. Did your DD end up going there?

No - she was offered a music place at her first choice option (we sat for 7 schools) so she went there.

I don't think you can ever count on aptitude places anywhere. You can know you have a good shot at them - we were pretty sure DD would be competitive - but some schools have hundreds targeting them, most of whom will be very musical and many of whom will have high grades across multiple instruments.

Orchestral instruments are always an advantage, piano and violin are very over-represented.

I would also say that you definitely want to be sure a) that the child is genuinely interested and b) what the school demand in return.

DD is very focused on music now and for the future so spends her life in the department anyway, but not much fun if you're only doing it for the place.

She is definitely genuinely interested; she is a high grade in an orchestral instrument (which is not the violin!), a somewhat lower grade in a more 'for fun' instrument, and she sings. She wants to go to a school where music is very important (but we can't afford to send her somewhere private, and I fear we are too late to jump on the 11+ bandwagon for somewhere like Latymer).

And this is where I'm not sure about Camden; is there just hype because SO many people try to get a music place? Or is there actually a genuinely better music provision there than somewhere like APS?

@nlondonmummy123 my DD used to go to colourstrings and a lot of the kids there tried for music places and got them so whilst yes it's competitive, I think that's only because it's advertised as something anyone can try, even without music experience which is really not true. You find out your position early, so you should know whether it's worth putting CSG down as an option before the deadline. Even if you didn't, the way admissions works is you get the first school you're eligible for on your list. So if u put CSG first choice and you don't get in, you're not going to be at a disadvantage for APS even if it's second.
As for music, both schools have lots on and the standard is pretty high if you want to do that. There's a lot more kids learning to play at APS than at CSG from what I know though so they probably have more beginner level groups. APS posts their clubs list on their website, they'll have any orchestras on there. I think you need to request it from CSG.
DD doesn't play anymore but still has friends who take it seriously, all from her colourstring days, and regardless of what school they are, whether state or private, nearly all of them do things like Haringey Symphony Orchestra etc.
I'd try for CSG just because I think it's nice to have options, and kids change a lot towards the end of primary, it may be obvious by next Oct where you want her to go so keep as many options open as you can.

@nlondonmummy123 also sorry but on paper APS gets much better results than CSG. APS has progress 8 of 0.96 and 85% 5 and above, whilst CSG progress 8 is 0.77 and 77% 5 and above in maths and English. CSG was also downgraded from outstanding to good recently. Both schools are way way above national average so it's not really that relevant but still APS is the stronger one paper.

In terms of latymer it's not too late if she's bright but I wouldn't bother if you've got APS on your doorstep and CSG as a potential option too. The journey to CSG will be much nicer than to Latymer and she will have more local friends going to CSG than Latymer tbh. Latymer has a huge amount coming from Hackney and that direction so friends will be a lot more spread and more difficult to get to for your DD than Camden is. CSG is also very much N London intake, even for music.
HHS has already had all their open days I think, not sure though, I know they definitely already had their open evening.

Thanks :)... reading the stats etc is new to me! I was just looking at the % of 7-9 GCSE on each of their websites, APS seems to have 47% grade 7-9, and Camden 54%, but I could be reading from the wrong place etc.

Use this:

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england