A Level Choices - Maths, Physics and … DT or Chemistry? Any advice?

[BreakfastClub80]

DD is in Year 11 and looking at A level choices as above. She doesn’t know what she wants to do as a career and is fairly open minded but that doesn’t help to decide between DT and chemistry. She definitely wants to do Maths and Physics.

She is projected 9’s at GCSE in all the subjects so is relatively capable in all but are there any advantages or disadvantages to either choice? I’ve done some research and can’t see that DT is required for many degrees whereas Chemistry can be but equally she may not want to do those degrees (often engineering) and maybe the maths/physics/chemistry is a harder mix?

DD is interested in many degree topics if we raise them eg nuclear physics, chemical engineering, general engineering but loves DT so I don’t know if I’ve just not found the degrees she might like if she did that.

Help!

I think Chemistry is probably the better option. I don't know much about DT but it isn't considered as respected as Chemistry would be. She is clearly very capable so I don't think it'd be a mistake but to be fair, doing 3 STEM subjects could be very hard so perhaps she might do DT to make her life easier. I still think Chemistry would be the better option and would open a lot more options for her regarding the degree topics she's looking at.

I think she should do what she loves. It is probably true that chemistry is needed for more degrees, but if it is DT that she loves then that might take her closer to a career that she loves (that design element?). Can she start doing all 4 and then make her decision after she has Road-tested them at a-level?

Chemistry isn’t harder if it’s what she’s good at. I find maths and physics incredibly easy. You just get it and there isn’t much revision needed. Chemistry is the harder one with a lot more to memorise. I don’t think DT is easier for someone who is academic and good at the sciences.

Has she thought about Further Maths? That will be very useful if she wants to do maths or physics at university. But you also mention chemical engineering which I guess needs Chemistry?

Ultimately it’s up to her. You have done your research with university admissions. But don’t pick DT because you perceive is the easier choice.

Some questions:

Does she plan to do maths and further maths? Or just maths? While universities generally don't require further maths for programs because not every school offers it, a lack of interest in further maths if it's available would make me wonder if she's unlikely to want to pursue the most math-heavy university courses & careers. Some universities also ask for something like A*A in maths plus one of physics, chem, further maths or computer sci. Having further maths as a fourth option on top of physics will give her two shots at that second required grade, but if she's not doing FM I'd discuss the benefits of having two sciences. Similarly, certain programs want three math and science A levels and FM would cover that.

Will having one A level that has a practical component be a significant positive or negative for your DD? For some students it's very helpful to have a large portion of one A level that they can have completed before exams start with plenty of time to plan, work and revise. For others, practical components can either become maddening time sucks or an executive function nightmare. Also consider the practical component load if she plans on doing an EPQ alongside 3 A levels.

Does the idea of only having hard science/quantitative studies week in and week out demotivate or motivate her? I was a strong academic all-rounder like your DD and having a bit of variety in my courses kept me more engaged in my studies. Related to this point - it's easy to look at the degree programs that require a specific A level (ex needing chemistry for chemical engineering) and DT will be at a disadvantage in that analysis because few programs require it. But there are some degree courses outside of the core STEM areas where having a variety of A levels is positively considered.

I'll note that maths, physics and design & technology is a go-to combination for architecture. It's also very popular for mechanical and civil engineering.

Thank you, these are brilliant responses and give some great insights.

@theorangecounty that is part of the question, I think we need to find out a bit more about the degree subjects to make sure, as none of us really know much about engineering.

@Undercoveragents this is the bit I’m worried about as, outside of school work, she typically enjoys more creative pursuits. She’s very interested in fashion (though I’m sure many teenagers are) and adored Lego when she was younger.

Her current school won’t allow 4 (except further maths) but she is applying to another school where they will. So that might be one solution.

@SummerBarbecues yes she sounds similar to you, maths and physics come easily whereas she is working harder on chemistry now. She finds DT relatively easy because it’s quite process driven and marked accordingly. Also, the exam is very similar to physics (to her mind, I don’t mean it covers the same things).

@AGoingConcern that’s an interesting perspective of further maths. It’s on the table at the moment but DD isn’t sure whether to do it. At her current school, if she takes it then she has no free periods left. This has implications for any DT coursework but also the school run a 6th form award where she is likely to do either an EPQ or another course in Computer Studies and I don’t know how they timetable this.

At the moment she isn’t interested in a maths degree either so you may be right about the type of degree and the implications from that - I will discuss that with her and DH.

I personally think she would find having the variety of DT a positive in terms of balancing out the maths and physics but I will ask her to think about this.

And yes, I’m finding exactly what you’re saying about degree courses, chemistry and DT are very different to search up.

Overall, it’s really interesting because DD is strong across the board (despite being dyslexic) so her subject choices are very much showing what she is interested in. So that’s good. I’m hoping to help her get a bit more information and then she can take it from there. I will show her your points as I think they are really might help her to work this out.

Thank you.

Since she is dyslexic, and it is often associated with really strong spatial awareness and if she is into design and loves DT I would say it sounds an excellent choice, perhaps with FM as well. But ultimately, whatever she loves most is best. Although I know it can be really hard to determine when you are also good at everything!

Perhaps she would like Architecture or Product Design as a degree.

Has she considered doing Computer Science as a 3rd A level? Just a thought.

If she’s good at DT, then not doing Chemistry probably wouldn’t disadvantage her. If she wants to do Engineering for example, then doing FM is probably more of a consideration. Not doing Chemistry doesn’t even close the door to Chemical Engineering at most places. So if DT is what she wants to do and comes more naturally than Chemistry I’d go for that but definitely consider FM.

For engineering degrees at top universities, if your school offers further maths then they expect you to take it. My DD is doing maths, further maths, physics and DT next year. Keeps the doors open for lots of STEM careers. I can assure you that DT is most definitely not an easy option!

Interesting choices. DS wants to do Engineering and initially chose Maths, FM, Physics and CompSci, but he dropped the last one and switched to French very early because he a) found CompSci boring (had done it at GCSE and it wasn’t different enough) b) wanted variety and c) has a dream to move to France one day. Point being, sometimes doing what you love and exercising your brain in different ways is good.

He’s just been on a load of Eng open days and recently looked at things like 3D printing demonstrations. Would DT lead into something like that? Eng degrees can also have practical projects, eg building machines. So DT might be a good option if she is at all interested in Eng or manufacturing.

Also think pps have given good answers about Architecture.

I find maths and physics incredibly easy. You just get it and there isn’t much revision needed.

You might, but there are many, many, many pupils who sail through GCSE math and physics but then are absolutely hit sideways on starting A level maths particularly. Statistically maths is shown to be the biggest leap and whilst it is respected as being an excellent A level to have, there are only a tiny minority of people that would find it easy.

@NewName24 thats really interesting, DD is great at maths but not the best, in her opinion, as their are others who just wing it. She is worried she will find FM too difficult.

@MotherOfCatBoy great to hear of your DS’s path, it is interesting how they work it out for themselves. I’m sure Dd will too. She said earlier that she will miss all her other subjects as she likes learning (this is very much a change of tune from choosing GCSEs!.

@DibbleDooDah will your DD be doing anything else eg EPQ? At our school they are expected to do another ‘qualification’ as part of a 6th form award and that will add more time. I contacted the school today and they’ve said they “might” allow her to miss this if she took those subjects. We’ll see, DD doesn’t want to do an EPQ.

My DD is also very anti EPQ but it looks like she can get out of it doing 4 A-levels plus she has a scholarship in another area (creative) so can argue it’s enough.

@NewName24 For maths heavy degrees, you do need very strong maths at A level. If a person struggles at maths at A level, then they shouldn’t consider a maths heavy degree. I have an engineering undergrad and PhD and the maths is much harder at degree level. DH has a physics degree and he said the physicists joked about engineers being weak at maths.

So some people really do find the maths and physics easy at A level. I would imagine most who do engineering, physics and maths degree are in that category.

I only mention it because it sounds like OP daughter is in this group. There is a preconception that these subjects are universally hard for everyone but it’s not true.

But I am digressing here. Ultimately I think the most important thing about the third choice between DT, chemistry and FM would be degree choice. Definitely don’t write off FM if the degree says they’d prefer FM. Without it, she’d need to catch up when at university because most of the other students would have done it.

On the leap in Maths - DS chose FM knowing it would be hard, as they do Maths in first year of sixth form and then FM in second year so effectively working twice as fast as other A Levels. In the first half term he had a real wobble and I think was wondering if he’d made a mistake. Their teacher had deliberately started at a high level, I think to get the measure of them all and get the message across that they needed to work. He knuckled down, worked really really hard, and ended up with an A star. But it wasn’t easy. He always compares himself to one or two other kids in his class who he says « just get it » naturally and although he’s right on the edge of that, he has to concentrate and work at it. That’s not a bad lesson to learn in life, but it does show how hard the Maths is!

Aiming v high but might this be of interest? https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/design-ba-hons-mdes But you would need to check if further maths is sort of expected, albeit no stated as required.

That looks amazing @SlenderRations

Thank you @DibbleDooDah , @SummerBarbecues and @MotherOfCatBoy . It’s really useful to hear of other’s experiences as DH didn’t do FM (back in the day) and DD is unsure.

@BreakfastClub80 Further maths is also an A-level that some choose to drop if they are finding it too much. So start with four and drop to three or just get an AS level.