11+ Appeal

[JJTDH]

Hi.
I was wondering if anyone within the Buckinghamshire region could help me with understanding how the appeals process works.

My daughter scored 120 on her 11+, she wants to go to the same school as her sister which is a grammar school and I've said I'm happy to appeal for her if that's what she wants but I've no idea where to start!

I also know the grammar school we are looking at reserves 10 spaces for those who score between 115-120 who are in receipt of Pupil Premium so we have that option to but again no idea where to start with that either.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Sorry if I'm confusing you. My daughter scored 120 and the pass mark for grammar school is 121. My daughter is currently in receipt of Pupil Premium at her current primary school. I have to prove this to the grammar school as the reserve places for those who didn't qualify but scored just under and receive pupil premium.

Right so you write in the form that she is in receipt of PP now which the LA/your primary will be able to confirm as they're getting the PP money. It isn't particularly clear the basis of the 10 PP places - whether the nearest 10 are awarded or random allocation.

In any case there's nothing you can do now other than make sure you add a note that she is a Pp applicant with a score of 120 - you'll have to wait.

If she isnt offered a place then you can appeal. I'm not an appeals expert, but she has met the academic criteria so you wouldn't need your head to support you in evidencing that, but you would need to show that this schools offers something she needs (an orchestra to support her violin lessons for example) that the allocated school cannot offer.

I don’t think this is correct. There is something they can do now - they can (and should, in my opinion) apply for a selection review which must be done in the next couple of weeks I think. They should also call the desired school and ask about the PP place in case the selection is unsuccessful, though most 120s are successful I believe. Violins and orchestras are irrelevant, it specifically says in the bucks selection review not to mention extra curricular as they’re not relevant. They cannot wait until school allocations in March and see if they get a place, without a score of 121 they won’t get a place (unless this PP thing works for them but I don’t know anything about that). This is different to a comprehensive school application/appeal process.

Ah right - yes of course. OP means a selection review, not an appeal. 🤦‍♀️ Good point - one mark below qualifying should certainly be reviewed.

While extra curricular isn't relevant for normal admissions - rightly so - when it comes to appeal, finding Something the target school offers that benefits the applicant that the offered school doesn't have, can be useful in tipping the balance of prejudice towards applicant and away from school.

Thanks for the help and advice everyone.

Spoke to the head teacher today and he is very supportive of a selection review so that is our next step I think.

Let me caveat this by saying my knowledge is 2 years out of date.
What was her score? Whilst it will have said 120 in big, bold letters, the 11+ marks are rounded down and, if you add up the four elements, you'll establish if she got 120, 120.25, 120.5 or 120.75.
If your DD is in a state primary in the county, before she sat the test, the headteacher will have already scored all of the children who sat the 11+ for both their perceived intelligence and their attitude to learning. The scores given are 1 (being the best) to 4. Ideally, your DD wants to have a 1,1 score as this is the highest endorsement the school. If she is getting a 3 or 4 in either category, you might want to reconsider.
You then write a letter. The most important factor here is that the panel spend something like 2 minutes per review so it needs to be short and snappy. Keep it factual and be able to evidence those facts. No more than one side of A4; no heartfelt pleas or referencing the fact that she was reading Harry Potter age 2 and has done her own transcription of the Rosetta Stone. Instead, say that's your DD is in receipt of pupil premium meaning she is eligible for one of the ten PP places and refer to the evidence of this that you have enclosed. Then refer to how she has done in any tests run by the school and, again, refer to the evidence you have enclosed.
You are basically trying to evidence that she is suitable for grammar school and will be able to keep up with the academic pace. They're not interested in her music, drama or sport abilities or achievements. That might be relevant if you are appealing for a particular school but you're not. You are demonstrating that she should be selected as suitable for grammar school. The panel won't know which school you are interested in. Instead, they are deciding to put her in the same pool as those who got 121 so that, when school places are allocated, she can be considered for the grammar schools you have listed on your form in accordance with their admissions criteria.
You have to apply for schools before you know the outcome of your review. Due to the sibling connection, it sounds like you know which grammar school she will go to if selection review works. That will clearly be your first choice. Your second choice may then be your reserve grammar school choice or you may choose not to do that and just put your top choice non-grammar. If she doesn't pass selection review, then the admissions team will simply disregard your first (grammar school) choice and allocate her then on-grammar

The other thing I should have said - if you're not at an in county state primary, the HT won't have submitted their mark for the child in advance of the test so will need to do that now instead

Another point to add (regardless of selection review) - check the admission policy of the grammar school you're aiming for and if they want a supplementary information form before the admissions deadline to qualify for the PP space. Our local one does.

Thank you, that's very helpful. School are supportive and have said we should definitely go for review. She is in a county state school and her score 120.25.

I'm awaiting a letter from her school about her pupil premium status but test ect I believe the school are including in their part of the review. It's just all very stressful.

Thank you, they don't specify how you're meant to show them the information to prove your child receives pupil premium but bucks council say the school has a supplementary information form but I can't find it. We are looking at Beaconsfield High x

Have the school told you how they have graded her?

No, the headteacher is new and he couldn't remember but he said the teachers knew her sister was already at a grammar school and he was hoping I would come and speak to him about a review. I'm hoping with that comment that it was a decent score 🤷🏽‍♀️

No, I'm sorry but this still isn't quite right. There are both selection reviews AND appeals in Bucks. Getting the school to undertake a review doesn't preclude you going to appeal thereafter.

And extra-curricular is totally irrelevant. The appeal is all about providing academic evidence that could account for the DC not achieving the qualifying mark on the day. You do this via evidence from the primary school (HT's comments/predictions, CATs scores, SATs scores and so on, depending on what tests the primary school conduct). Or you can provide medical evidence for the missed mark, but this has to be something you can prove, and which would have affected your DC on the day of the test, not a long-term condition (unless you have evidence of a flare-up).

Bucks' position is that all schools, grammar and secondary moderns, are capable of providing a suitable education for all DCs, so basing an appeal on claiming that one school provides something another school does not, won't work.

I'm not saying I agree with any of this, just to be clear. I'm simply outlining how the appeals process works and what an appeals panel is looking for.

@JJTDH the good news is that at 120 you don't have very much to prove. A single piece of academic evidence might well suffice.

For grammars there's two parts to an appeal - the first is to demonstrate academic suitability that wasn't seen in the test. Once that part has been agreed, then it's a normal prejudice appeal. And that can include extra curricular, and anything else that helps show the prejudice to the school in admitting is less than the prejudice to the appellant in not being admitted.

It's never JUST about demonstrating academic suitability, though that is of course essential.

Thank you. I will ahev to ask the school as they have all her academic evidence and I believe the head teacher was going to reference it in his letter for the review so I'm not even sure I I need to put some in. I was going to mention she is a younger child (31st August) so sat this exam having just turned 10 but not sure I tgis holds much backing x

Nope. You're still wrong. That is not how it works in Bucks. The precise wording is: "Evidence of participation in extra-curricular activities, whilst commendable, is also not information the SRP will take into account."

That appears on the Bucks Council website and was last updated in April this year. A Bucks selection review is 100% about demonstrating academic suitability, absent specific family circumstances (young carer, or very recent death or serious illness in the household for example).

@titchy I normally like your posts, but I'm afraid you're just plain wrong on this occasion. Take it from someone who has lived in Bucks for 50 years and been involved in grammar school appeals from both a personal and professional perspective.

@JJTDH was your DD born before her due date? If her due date was in September, then yes, that is grounds for an appeal and will be taken into account by a panel. Otherwise I'm afraid you're right and it won't have a bearing because the panel will take the view that that has already been accounted for via the age standardisation process (it won't have been, of course, but unfortunately that is a view they are allowed to take).

Just to clarify, what happens is that if a Selection Review succeeds the DC is then considered in the same light as every other DC who achieved the qualifying mark. In Bucks that guarantees you a place at a grammar school (though not necessarily at the one of your choice incidentally).

There's no such thing as a prejudice appeal in Bucks.

She was born before her due date yes, she was due September 3rd.

The school are doing the academic side for us, we have to write down why we think she will do better at a grammar school. So anything I can use to help me is great.

Yes I realise the selection review panel won't take extra curricular into account.

I was talking about the subsequent appeal process - once places have been allocated. An applicant who scored (or was otherwise deemed to be of suitable academic ability) who wasn't offered a place at their preferred school due to over-subscription still has the right appeal surely?

Yes you most definitely should mention this. It's very relevant.

I'm by no means an expert on the wording, but something like. 'DD was due to be born on September 3rd xxxx, but arrived 3 days early. As you will appreciate this means that not only is she the youngest child in her year, but if she had been born on her due date she would actually have been in the academic year below.'

Um…. Arriving three days before due date 10 years ago is not relevent for a selection review in the slightest! loads of children arrive in the 2-3 weeks before their official due date and are not considered premature… they just come when they want to.

The Bucks 11 plus scores are calculated seperately for each birth month. so the OPs child is being compared to all the other August babies.

The academic year cut off is strange, granted, but she’s not being compared to September babies almost a year older than her. the scores are with the other August-borns.

It is in the very specific circumstances OP has outlined – a due date which would have placed a child in a different year group is something which may definitely be considered. I've seen panels specifically discuss exactly this issue.

It's nothing to do with prematurity per se and if you read my previous post you will see that I say precisely what you do, that an August birthday in and of itself isn't considered a disadvantage.

this isn’t an appeal though… it’s a Selection Review.Besides, being born on 31st August isn’t a special circumstance. it’s the child’s birthday. My DD was born on 30th August…. there is nothing special
about being born at the end of a month.

If the OP wants to put that in, of course they CAN , and I don’t want to put them off doing that, I am just not convinced it counts for much. I’m not a panel judge myself, and if you’ve been on appeal boards you’ll have seen things I have not

the whole “should have been in x year” is honestly irrelevent. it’s not grounds for a review or appeal. the child was born when they were born and is being considered with other children born in the same month. they are in the year that they are.

The child who was born on 31/8 would have got extra marks for it anyway, so no I wouldn't mention being born 3 days before due date. I also know a few children who deferred a year as it was clear to the parents that they were "behind" their peers. They did 11+ a year later and some were offered places at grammar schools.

Sorry meant deferred a year when they were 4 or 5.

Was your DD due to be born in September like OP's @YouDontNeedWarpaint? In academic terms it can be considered a special circumstance if the DC in question was born earlier than expected, and expected date would put them into a different school year.