Removal of all breaks and lunch for a week

[babypeach]

Hi all,

just wanting some perspective on this. My daughter’s secondary school have removed her entire year group’s break and lunch times as punishment for a group of students who repeatedly bring vapes into school, run around school during breaks and generally misbehave.

my daughter has never had a detention or been anything but a model student her whole time there. I’m not one to complain to the school in general. I often find many of their rules illogical and have said that sometimes she might get a group detention Alan’s to just put up with it but …not being able to go outside at all for a week? They have been to they must be silent and sit still through all breaks otherwise more punishment will follow. She is very worried that those students will
continue to misbehave, given their lack of respect for rules in general, leading to more punishments for the majority of kids who haven’t caused the problems.

I also have concerns that cooping kids up like that will cause issues in concentration etc even in kids that are usually good, again leading to further sanctions.

ive never complained to the school but I did this idea really quite awful and don’t understand how it will help? It won’t magically make these kids behave and stop vaping/being rude/having behaviour issues etc. what do the school plan to do at the end of the week if the problem doesn’t away? What’s the exit plan? Just keep doing it?

I plan to write to the school (though I know it won’t do anything) and just wondered if other people here felt the same or had other views?

thanks!

It's still a break from lessons and to have lunch.

They're just not allowed to 'socialise' i.e. vape, be out of bounds and behave antisocially. Until they learn to follow the normal rules as a group, they're going to have problems. It sounds like this might have just the right impact on those who can't do the right things.

What a totally idiotic way of ‘managing’ the problem. The school ought to be ashamed of themselves - if they really think that this is an appropriate or effective way of going about things then I’d look at moving your DD ASAP. I highly suspect that this won’t be the only area in which they are lacking.

This is going to create an entire year group of tired, disruptive and fed up kids who can’t concentrate for the week. No breaks is not ethical for any child.

What does their behaviour policy say?

It might have something on collective punishment

Otherwise, it will say what the punishments are for. If she hasn't done the punishable act, she shouldn't receive the punishment

Why has this been done? The pupils running around the school should be easy to identify. What is the justification for applying this sanction to the whole year group?

What does this mean in practice? The pupils can read or do homework so long as they do it calmly and without talking in the classroom? What about going to the toilet? If a pupil is drinking a proper amount, they should have to go during the school day.

Would you want to sit in silence for an hour and not be allowed outside because some other people you work with had done something wrong?

I am almost always on the side of the school. But I would write to complain that:

1. your dd is receiving a punishment despite not being involved in any bad behaviour. Look up the school’s behaviour policy (they have to have this on their website) and ask why a sanction is being applied to your dd: how does it relate to her behaviour.
2. Your dd is a well-behaved child and is already punished by having to share classes with these children, whose behaviour impacts on her educational chance. Ask what the school is going to do to ensure that the behaviour of these children stops having an impact on your dd.

i think teachers have to put up with a lot, and am on side 99.9% of the time, but this approach is genuinely unfair.

The school need to address the issues with the specific young people who are causing this issue. They won't change because their behaviour is affecting their peers who make better choices. In fact, I'm fairly sure they'll find it hilarious. I genuinely do not understand how a school thinks that this approach will be successful. All it does is make the 'good' children resentful of their peers and their teachers.

That is absolutely shit behaviour management! Most schools I've worked in don't allow whole-class punishments, never mind whole-year-group ones. It's unfair and a bit pathetic, frankly.

It staggers me that adults will defend collective punishment for children, would they tolerate it applied to them?

The individuals should be disciplined according to school policy, whether that is detention, suspension etc.

Group punishment is only going to create more discipline problems in the short and long run. It breaks the trust and bond for children like your daughter who do everything right.

I always support the school sanctions when my child is in the wrong. I’d be complaining about group punishment. It shows a weak leadership and poor ability to tackle the real problems.

So there is zero incentive to behave well as you'll get treated the same as someone who runs wild. Nice choice by the school

It's so passive aggressive isn't it? They will know full well who the vapers and badly behaved kids are but they don't want to address it with the individuals, so they punish everyone instead. The staff are hoping the good kids will do their job for them, it won't work!!

This won't have any impact on those students that have caused the issue.
Assuming the school know who they are then they are the ones who should be punished and not the rest of the class.
I would absolutely refuse to have my DC participate in this "punishment" and would be contacting the school to make my thoughts known.

If someone does something wrong at work, it isn't the case that everyone is punished: the person at fault is reprimanded or let go.

This is unacceptable.

It's poor behaviour management on the school's part. They can't control the students who are misbehaving sp they punish everyone. DH and I are both teachers and disagree with this. Follow the school complaints policy.

This sounds mad, and also unworkable, how are they going to get an entire year group to sit in silence for that long, including lunch - when will they go to the canteen? Where will they be doing this detention?

Likely the good kids will turn up to the detention and the kids who are running around vaping will hide in the toilets anyway.

Collective punishment is generally frowned upon in schools, so definitely write in querying this (asking for the behaviour policy is a good idea as this is unlikely to be in it).

I agree with this. Children respect those who respect them. Disciplining the whole year group for the wrongdoings of a few select individuals just completely breaks down this relationship and will lead to issues in the long run.

And from a purely practical level, how much actual learning is going to take place that week? A whole year group is going to be angry and unfocused with a load of pent up energy. The school’s primary purpose is learning. The amount of actual learning will be close to zero especially as the week progresses.

We hear so much bollocks about how missing one day of school will forever affect your child’s chances. These children may be present in body that week, but you can guarantee they won’t be present in mind.

I'd raise it with the school. They're essentially using the well-behaved kids to put pressure on the vaping kids. Why can't the teachers manage behaviour without having to draft in others to do it for them?

Many years ago my daughter was in a similar situation, though most of the problems were caused by one particular child who unfortunately lived quite close to us. Said child was constantly trying to get my daughter to go out roaming the streets with her and getting the whole class into trouble. I voted with my feet and moved my daughter to another school. Life is too short and education too precious to have to deal with such problems and the resulting consequences later on.
If I were you op, I would move your child before things get worse.

I find this perplexing. It makes no sense. I would usually support what the school is trying to do but not in this instance and if you had other options available I would consider a different school as they are so far off the mark on their behaviour policy (that is still evidently not working) that it's a worry.

I see there are at least two teachers on here saying this is ridiculous. I'm a former classroom teacher and I agree. I never did whole-class punishments (like, asking everyone to stay in at break). It's so so unfair on those who did nothing wrong.

I would definitely query it with the school - who has decided this? I also agree it sounds completely unworkable. How are they going to get food? when will they go to the toilet?

Thank you all

I’m glad I asked as, like many on here, I am always in support of teachers and overall appreciated the low tolerance for poor behaviour in the school because it targeted individuals and my daughter it otherwise very settled at the school. I see where people are coming from who support it in some ways - but they are not really having a break - rules are no talking and sitting still, on top of being quiet and still and focusing in lessons.

She likes most of her teachers and classmates etc although noted there is a consistent group who are rebellious, usually bringing makeup/phones etc, recently vaping has crept in and clearly the school feels they’ve lost the upper hand on this.

i agree with pp that this really just punishes the good kids-can’t imagine the kids with poor behaviour will care.

it wouldn’t be acceptable to do this to adults in general and I feel it just undermines trust from those kids who do behave.

will be checking the policy carefully and emailing the school .

thank you all for taking the time to reply.

That sounds unreasonable and counterproductive as described.

I agree with talking to the school. Start by just asking for their explanation without being on the attack or assuming you've got the whole, unbiased picture. If they confirm what your DD has told you then I'd tell them you don't support your DD being punished for something she can't control (the behavior of other students) and feel this is harmful for her learning, both because of the lack of needed (genuine) breaks and because it erodes trust in teachers and administrators to be fair and act in her best interests.

It sounds like they have tried to punish the individuals but that has failed so they are now punishing the group (which I have never heard of to be honest). It sounds like they want to annoy the rest of the year group with the sanctions so that the good kids put pressure on the badly behaved ones to get them to stop. All very odd in my opinion and unfair on the ones who do behave. Why can’t they just suspend/expel them!?

I would complain about that extremely strongly, it is completely unacceptable to punish people who have done nothing wrong.

I would send a formal complaint to the Head and encourage other parents to do the same.

I would also collect my child at lunch if possible, as I would not want them to have to go along with this.