4 essay subjects at A-Level?

[TealDeer020202]

Just started Y12 having finished my GCSEs and an EPQ last year. I am currently taking Religious Studies and English Literature (both OCR) , Politics and History (both AQA) for A-Level. Wondering if anyone has experience themselves or with their child in these subjects and whether its a bit too much. For context, I got an A in my EPQ and six 9s (seven if you incld. native language), two 8s and two 7s at GCSE. I'm aiming for a history degree or maybe a law degree.

And the climate is far less competitive than it was! OxB plus a handful of others excepted.

My ds is in year 13, predicted four A stars but one is in further maths, so not quite your situation.

He was considering dropping further maths and so asked at every open day he attended, including Imperial and Oxford, whether there was an advantage in four a levels. They all said they only consider the highest three, no advantage to four. He kept the further maths because it's his favourite a level, however.

I think you would be better taking three, aiming for A stars and really ramping up the supercurriculars. Also seeing whether you likely subject at uni requires an entrance exam and revising for that.

Only History has an NEA for me so thankfully not too much. EPQ I did in Y11 so that's out the way (incidentally I was quite disappointed about that actually, school gave me near-full marks only to be externally moderated to an A from an A star but what's done is done). I think its because all the Oxbridge applicants and a decent amount of UCL/LSE law applicants I know at my school seem to do 4 subjects or IB (my old school did that which is why)

Ohe of my ideas was to take one or two of my four as an AS-Level at the end of Y12. Then continue with my fav 3 into Y12 so I have 3ALevels + 1 AS Level. Sadly my school doesn't offer AS-Levels but I suppose if I really wanted to I could enter as a private candidate

My DS studied those same 4 A levels (all CCEA board). It’s not that unusual to study 4 subjects here in NI within grammar schools. DS dropped History after AS (we still have AS levels here in NI with CCEA) and continued the other three. He got A at AS for History and 2Astar, 1A at A2 for the other three. He was applying for university in ROI where 4 subjects (at least at AS level) is highly recommended, and necessary in some subjects.

He was certainly capable of keeping all 4 on to A2, but probably had a better work-life balance in U6th with 3, but never regretted taking all 4 at AS. He didn’t find the content too much or the essay writing - it’s his skill set so for him it was natural, whereas 3 STEM subjects would have been much harder because that’s just not his thing.

DD is in L6th at present and taking RS, History, Politics & Geog. Will most likely drop one after AS next summer, but we’ll see - would also be capable of keeping all 4 on so we’ll see how she goes.

I struggle a little with the idea that taking 4 is pointless - I understand that A levels are passport qualifications to move on to the next stage, but they are also opportunities to study something you’re interested in and be challenged - if you are coping with the workload there is no reason to drop a subject just because your university offers will be based on 3 grades. There IS something to be said for studying for the joy and challenge and not purely for the university offers.

I know of some schools who do International A-Levels in England because they're still modular and AS count towards the final a-level grade and haven't been decoupled ... very smart of them. Not sure if school will allow me to take an AS in a subject I want to drop at end of Y12 but maybe I could enter privately. That being said I like writing essays though I do feel challenged by some (especially OCR English Lit where for some reason its 93 or 94% for an A* or something stupid) though hopefully that's just the GCSE to A-Level gap

There is significant overlap between the OPs four A Levels. RS, History, Politics and English Lit all do feed into each other. Mostly in skills but occasionally in content as well.

I think the best advice is to look ahead at some unis now that you might consider and ask their admissions department directly. Yes, the vast majority are only asking for 3 A levels but the applicants might have 4 and the unis are swayed or prefer to offer to applicants who can handle a heavier work load. For some courses you would be required to sit entrance exams and also submit some of your college work too.

I do think this comes down to the ability to keep all 4 subjects at a high grade and whether this is easy for you or not. Ds1 found both maths and further maths ridiculously easy at A level, always toward the top of the A star (if you use the asterisk it bolds the words between them) whereas others in his class struggled a lot. Most homework was finished in class because he could get through the classwork easily and yes he did 4 subjects but the 4th was further maths.

With that being said, if you are enjoying your subjects and can maintain high grades then if you were my child I would advise you to continue as you are and reassess further into year 12. If you would be early entry for UCAS with an October deadline (Oxbridge) then you need to consider your end of year 12 grades would be your predicted grades. At my sons' sixth form they use those exams, all end of topic test grades and general attitude to learning to predict their final grades.

I see what you mean, but arguably doing 4 could make you more likely to do worse in one or more of your subjects because of the increased workload. By doing 3 you have more time to devote to each (both day to day and later on when revising).

@Glassasurus offers good, nuanced advice. Ultimately it comes down to where you are on the academic spectrum. Universities with hyper-competitive entry are most likely looking at the top 2-3%. If you are in the top 1%, and OP might be, then 4 essay subjects at A-level may well feel right and strong performance in Y12 will set them up for good predicted grades at the start of Y13 and the right mindset to tackle any entrance tests etc. However, if you are in the next centile down or the other after that, then you may well be in trade-off territory. It might be better to focus on 3 subjects and really excel in Y12 as well as in Y13.

In relation to History and Politics 'overlap', I have seen no guidance on any university websites that this is viewed as a disadvantage. OP could ask their school to provide concrete evidence (unlikely to be forthcoming) or, better still, as suggested above, approach some admissions tutors gatekeeping courses of interest.

I did it after it was recommended on this thread. Cambridge re-directed me to their website (which I did already anyways). UCL History said 'you are welcome to choose Politics as one of your other subjects. If you are taking Politics as one of your A-Levels, we will consider this as a separate subject. Please note that we will only consider three A-Level grades.' UCL law says 'We only require that two of the three subjects are on our UCL-wide preferred subject list'

we do have nov exams and I believe they give us a corresponding letter grade, however since we're so early in a-levels I'm not so sure if they're the best indicator. that being said the people who get straight a star probably got straight star or at least A in nov exams but that's me geussing

History and Pol has some overlap especially since we do AQA for both. Less so for RS and Lit

skill-wise would agree there's an overlap especially with things like source analysis or just being able to read quickly

The PP’s point about UCAS tariff is not helpful, as others have pointed out, as other things contribute to this. In my (extensive) experience of supporting Oxbridge applications, I have seen no advantage to taking 4 over 3. The exceptions would be Medicine at Cambridge and Mathsy degrees where the 4th is Further Maths. Taking 4 can actually be a disadvantage as some Cambridge colleges will include all 4 in their offer if you are taking them. (They do not say this on their websites but I have seen it happen.)

I’d also say that if you are enjoying and excelling at four, then why not go for it?! Just be aware of the risk of spreading yourself too thinly.

I struggle a little with the idea that taking 4 is pointless - I understand that A levels are passport qualifications to move on to the next stage, but they are also opportunities to study something you’re interested in and be challenged - if you are coping with the workload there is no reason to drop a subject just because your university offers will be based on 3 grades.

I agree with this and think that taking 4 A levels does demonstrate an ability to cope with a heavy workload, for unis interested in such things. And can provide a bit of insurance against exam disasters like one rogue bad paper or a big mistake like forgetting to turn the page. It's all good - as long as you're managing ok and not compromising your best three grades or risking missing out on a place at your preferred uni. DD took 4 unrelated A levels and is now at UCL on a course where apparently (according to DiscoverUni) 45% of students have more than 240 UCAS points. So I think 4 A levels are probably not uncommon there.

@TealDeer020202 The whole we offer on 3 A levels is because they cannot discriminate against candidates who can only choose 3 subjects This is all my belief from following lots of MN posts about A levels for the last 6 years or so. But the majority of state schools only offer 3 A levels at the end of year 13, some state schools will offer 4 subjects to the end of year 12 but they are then forced to drop one. I believe this is a funding issue. Further maths comes under a different funding hence why my children were able to take it at a state sixth form.

Both my sons took 4 A levels and only one university specified 3 A levels at one level and 4 A level grades slightly lower for their offer. If you start taking 4 and apply through UCAS and then drop to 3 you have to let all the unis know because they are assessing an applicant on 4 A level workload.

My sons had end of topic tests all the way through year 12 which give an indication as to how well you understood the topic in a subject. However, essay subjects are more subjective markings wise than maths or science. All you can do is see how well you are performing in tests and talk to your teachers to see how they feel you are coping next year. For me I would be looking at this again in April time. It is much better to ace out 3 A levels than drop grades over 4. It just gives you more choice.

Oxford philosophy- 3 x A stars and an A in the epq. Her offer was 3 x As. (Dds bf, not mine!) RS, English Lit and Politics.

@Blanketyre philosophy and ??? You have to take joint honours, so PPE, Maths & Philosophy, Physics & Philosophy etc

Philosophy and theology

It would have been an unusual combo for PPE!
AAA is the standard offer for Oxford humanities and you certainly don't need 3 x A* PGs.

OP A level politics is dull though. Include an EPQ with a politics slant and you will achieve exactly the same purpose and may gindvit far more inspiring.

I'd be amazed if anyone predicted 'only' 3 x As got an offer. It may be their published low offer but as we know that doesn't mean much.

My nephew had to get A star A A to read sports science at Loughborough! I'd be amazed if History or another humanities at Oxford were taking people predicted no A stars.

You certainly don't need 2, 3 or 4 of them. I would imagine Sports Science at Loughborough expects more STEM from applicants.

Once you have made it through the initial filters, scored in the top 10 - 15% in the TSA & survived at least 3 interviews which resemble tutorials, there are only 111% who get an offer for PPE. Oxford takes the pressure off for your actual A level results as they've already decided they want you.

@TealDeer020202
Average tariff and typical offer are very different things!
The typical offer is what you need to look up.
This will be based on 3 A levels.
They want 3 very high grades, not 4 slightly lower ones.
Your idea of doing 4 just incase one is a B is flawed. By doing 4 you are most likely to achieve a lower grade in EVERY subject.

The average tariff will include all the random extras like epqs and music exams as someone else pointed out.

Sign up for some of the free application talks being offered by Oxford and Cambridge at the moment and you'll get that same advice.