EPQ lost marks at internal moderation

Dancerfifi · 2024-09-25T17:40:15+00:00

Hi hope someone can help. My daughter got her EPQ results from school she was just off the grade boundary for B so we appealed as the moderator had removed 2 marks and her comment didn’t make sense with the section she removed marks from. We got an interval appeal and remark but the new moderator took a further 3 marks off which makes no sense as there was plenty of evidence that matched the upper band marks. My question is what can i do now? I feel sick that I have appealed and my daughter has now gone down a further grade boundary, can I ask for it to be marked externally? I feel we have been punished for appealing! Can she withdraw and resubmit? Any advice greatly appreciated thanks

SoupDragon · 25/09/2024 18:43

Unfortunately, marks going down is always a possibility with a review of marking. It's the risk you take.

Original poster

Dancerfifi · 25/09/2024 19:03

SoupDragon · 25/09/2024 18:43

Unfortunately, marks going down is always a possibility with a review of marking. It's the risk you take.

Yes I obviously understand that but the mark going down by 10% really makes me question the security of the centre marking! That seems excessive!

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TheFallenMadonna · 25/09/2024 19:09

So all of this is internal moderation? It was moderated before your daughter was given the mark, and then remarked internally after your appeal? Internal moderation is part of a robust centre marking process.

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 25/09/2024 19:10

You cannot withdraw and resubmit after a grade has been awarded, no.

Original poster

Dancerfifi · 25/09/2024 19:22

TheFallenMadonna · 25/09/2024 19:09

So all of this is internal moderation? It was moderated before your daughter was given the mark, and then remarked internally after your appeal? Internal moderation is part of a robust centre marking process.

Yes all internal moderation a 10% difference in marks from internal markers seems rather a lot!

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MrsHamlet · 25/09/2024 19:22

Is this the external moderation done by the exam board?
Or in centre before the marks go to them?

TheFallenMadonna · 25/09/2024 19:34

An inexperienced marker might well be marking outside tolerance. That's what moderation is for. How do you know that it was moderated down the first time? Remember that the internal marking will be externally moderated before the grade is given.

Original poster

Dancerfifi · 25/09/2024 19:58

TheFallenMadonna · 25/09/2024 19:34

An inexperienced marker might well be marking outside tolerance. That's what moderation is for. How do you know that it was moderated down the first time? Remember that the internal marking will be externally moderated before the grade is given.

We were given the supervisors mark sheet with the moderators comment in it and changed mark then we appealed as the moderators comments didn’t match up to the mark deductions. The original marker is the more experienced member of staff!

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Original poster

Dancerfifi · 25/09/2024 19:58

MrsHamlet · 25/09/2024 19:22

Is this the external moderation done by the exam board?
Or in centre before the marks go to them?

All centre moderation

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PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 25/09/2024 19:59

So it hasn’t been sent off to the exam board yet? She hasn’t got an official mark?

In which case, yes, you can withdraw it.

Original poster

Dancerfifi · 25/09/2024 20:08

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 25/09/2024 19:59

So it hasn’t been sent off to the exam board yet? She hasn’t got an official mark?

In which case, yes, you can withdraw it.

Thank you that’s one option then

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MrsHamlet · 25/09/2024 20:20

The centre policy should set out next steps. Ours allows for the candidate to request a review of marking, but makes clear that the decision of that person is final.

Malbecfan · 26/09/2024 21:17

This makes little sense to me. I am the EPQ lead in my school.

Projects are marked by supervisors. I then moderate those marks. The majority stay the same or might perhaps move by 1 or 2 marks, but that is within tolerance. The students are then given their marks and have the opportunity to appeal those. Note these are not grades - grades are only awarded by the exam board and can vary year on year. Once students have been given the chance to appeal, I sit with our exams officer and we input every mark, along with the initials of the supervisor. Once she hits "submit", a sample is generated and we have a couple of days to get the sample together ready to be uploaded. This is usually each supervisor's highest and lowest marked project plus at least one random project.

If your DD was not happy with the original mark, she should have queried it. If she was not given this opportunity, you should be complaining to the school as this is a QCA stipulation (I think QCA but I have had a lot of wine as I'm not working tomorrow!) I have no idea why your DD has been told a mark has changed; I tell mine that they are unmoderated so could change potentially.

The deadline for submitting for the summer is 15th May, so the timing is odd. Is your DD submitting for November?

If any of my team has a student with a mark close to a historic grade boundary, I do look at it, just to make sure I agree with the marks. Often they message me to say that they have struggled with marking a particular project, so could I look at it. I have run the team for the last 2 years and not had any changes made when projects have been externally moderated.

Original poster

Dancerfifi · 27/09/2024 09:08

Malbecfan · 26/09/2024 21:17

This makes little sense to me. I am the EPQ lead in my school.

Projects are marked by supervisors. I then moderate those marks. The majority stay the same or might perhaps move by 1 or 2 marks, but that is within tolerance. The students are then given their marks and have the opportunity to appeal those. Note these are not grades - grades are only awarded by the exam board and can vary year on year. Once students have been given the chance to appeal, I sit with our exams officer and we input every mark, along with the initials of the supervisor. Once she hits "submit", a sample is generated and we have a couple of days to get the sample together ready to be uploaded. This is usually each supervisor's highest and lowest marked project plus at least one random project.

If your DD was not happy with the original mark, she should have queried it. If she was not given this opportunity, you should be complaining to the school as this is a QCA stipulation (I think QCA but I have had a lot of wine as I'm not working tomorrow!) I have no idea why your DD has been told a mark has changed; I tell mine that they are unmoderated so could change potentially.

The deadline for submitting for the summer is 15th May, so the timing is odd. Is your DD submitting for November?

If any of my team has a student with a mark close to a historic grade boundary, I do look at it, just to make sure I agree with the marks. Often they message me to say that they have struggled with marking a particular project, so could I look at it. I have run the team for the last 2 years and not had any changes made when projects have been externally moderated.

Hi thanks for replying. My daughter was given her mark which had been operated and marked down by 2 marks we so pleased and then I got marked down a further 3 marks which seems rather excessive she lost 10% of her original marks! Can query this with the school?
surely when there is such a difference in the marks that is outside the tolerance that’s suggests the upper and lower mark are way off!
what are our options now? Can I dispute gre new moderated mark? This moderator hasn’t makes anyone else’s work in the school!

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Malbecfan · 27/09/2024 11:30

I'm sorry but I don't understand who has marked/moderated it and how your DD knows all this. The timeline is quite odd too.

Please could you let me know the following:
Exam board
Awarding date/session e.g. Summer 2024
Who marked it in the 1st place
Who moderated it down 2 marks
Who moderated it again down another 3 marks
How does your DD know all this?

In my school, we mark them and I internally moderate a sample. We agree the marks and THOSE are the marks that students are given. We do not tell them that they got 40 with Miss X but Mr Y moderated them down to 20. They do not see their work; they are simply given a mark and told that if they wish to challenge the process, they have x days to do so. As lots of them want to know grade boundaries which we cannot possibly know, we say "had you submitted it last year, this mark would have been grade Z".

One young man was quite disappointed last year. I told him that I had checked with a colleague and we both agreed with the mark. He was a bit sad but accepted it. He got onto his chosen course at university and has learned a few hard lessons as a result.

Original poster

Dancerfifi · 27/09/2024 14:38

Malbecfan · 27/09/2024 11:30

I'm sorry but I don't understand who has marked/moderated it and how your DD knows all this. The timeline is quite odd too.

Please could you let me know the following:
Exam board
Awarding date/session e.g. Summer 2024
Who marked it in the 1st place
Who moderated it down 2 marks
Who moderated it again down another 3 marks
How does your DD know all this?

In my school, we mark them and I internally moderate a sample. We agree the marks and THOSE are the marks that students are given. We do not tell them that they got 40 with Miss X but Mr Y moderated them down to 20. They do not see their work; they are simply given a mark and told that if they wish to challenge the process, they have x days to do so. As lots of them want to know grade boundaries which we cannot possibly know, we say "had you submitted it last year, this mark would have been grade Z".

One young man was quite disappointed last year. I told him that I had checked with a colleague and we both agreed with the mark. He was a bit sad but accepted it. He got onto his chosen course at university and has learned a few hard lessons as a result.

AQA
Im guessing it’s the November submission
First mark was her supervisor
2nd mark was moderator my DD was given that mark
she was then given the supervisors mark sheet with the comment and marks which also had the moderators lower mark on it and one comment which didn’t match the marks taken off
we then appealed as comment didn’t match the deduction
3rd mark by another member of staff took 3 marks off and was told this was final mark.
This mark is 10% lower than the first mark which seems very excessive and out of the tolerance
so from what you are saying they shouldn’t have given her the original 2 marks if they hadn’t done that we wouldn’t have appealed.

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