ISEB Atom dilemma - don’t understand

[Kitkat189]

My son is not doing well at all on Atom. I’d say his average is around 100, sometimes as low as in the 80s. He’s been on atom for about a month now so it’s not just a dip. I tried a different platform with him but it’s the same.

The issue is that he is a good student, so this isn’t making sense to me. A few additional data points: his school suggested we apply for Westminster and SPG (they frequently send boys to these schools so should know what it takes to have a fair chance), and his cat score was 137 last year. He is not the top of his year but I would expect him to be very solidly above average and to have a chance if not at the most competitive day schools, at least a good boarding school.

For the life of him he can’t do well in any of the ISEBs on Atom or Pretest plus. In fact he is doing horribly, since a month, so it’s not just an anomaly.

I don’t know what to make of this. Clearly the 11+ is unlikely to go well and with just weeks left there is not much we can do.

Has anyone been in a similar situation, with a child who does well in school & cats but just can’t do well in exams? I’m so confused, we weren’t ready for this and are now scrambling to find a different set of schools which will take a late application

(We have not applied to Westminster or SPG by the way as I never thought it would be a good fit but we were hoping for boarding)

How is he doing on the paper exams? The computer based adaptive tests require a lot of technique rather than core math knowledge. Is it the first month of him using a computer based test?

If he is scoring well in the paper exams, and completing on time, then likely he just needs to become more familiar with the fast speed of the online adaptive tests and you have time for this as long as his mental math is fast enough.

we used an Atom tutor for the last two months before the exams who was able to teach the technique. A standard tutor who teaches core material won’t have the computer based skill set to teach as they are generally not familiar.

That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing. His paper exams are better so perhaps focusing on technique might help

ISEB is https://www.iseb.co.uk/product/bond-online-premium-plus/ so try using Bond online. Atom is known to be horrible to use and pretest plus (It's Exam Papers Plus) is set at a much higher standard than is required. Hope that helps.

Also encouraged to shoot quite high by school

My DD didn’t quite get with ISEB it’s better to slow down and get it right vs rush through and try and complete all Q - that helped a bit - might be worth discussing?

Her exam scoring can be variable - 125+ then next one 100 or so

As she’s done more of the “islands” she seems to have picked up the techniques needed

Accuracy is more important than speed in the adaptive tests. My DD is also struggling with the adaptive format. I'd apply to some schools that do paper tests as well as the ISEB to give him a chance in case the ISEB doesn't go well. My DD doesn't do well in "easy" questions, but scores high in hard Maths questions as it motivates her more...this is not how the adaptive format works.... Kids are all different and online doesn't suit everyone ...

There’s certainly a technique aspect to it. If a child answers average difficulty questions wrong at the beginning, the test adapts to give them easier questions - and they can’t get the higher marks. And vice versa. You need to look carefully through the scripts. Where is he making mistakes? Are there specific knowledge gaps? Is he rushing through and making lots of mistakes, or going too slowly and not getting to all the questions?

Check day schools which are exam paper based and apply. Try to get schools with exams based on different styles, different focus ie, more VR and English or harder maths.
Emanuel, Latymer Upper, Alleyn, Dulwich, City. Days schools not on ISEB perimeters as a safety buffer.

Thanks everyone for all your input. I agree that the adaptive format is not ringing out the best in all candidates. Clearly my son has to get better at ISEB technique- accuracy over speed seems to be key?

From what I can see he rushes, I think the timer in the corner is a stress factor.

We will add some day schools with paper based exams, fingers crossed something works out. It’s so hard, this is not my first 11+ but all my children are very different so I can’t reuse any past insights!

Yes my DD looked at the timer and thought it meant she had to complete everything for ISEB it’s not the way it worked - we talked it through that helped - there were a couple of articles on it, pay most attention to the first few Q essentially even if slow

Yes for sensitive kids, the timer is an issue. It’s hard, maybe try to cover the timer for him first.

We are throwing in the towel. Pulling him out of the more competitive schools as the format isn’t doing him any favours and with just a little more than a month to go, we don’t know how to change this. I’d like to think that this is 100% fair and that this selection process will funnel each child to the school that is right for them, and that DS wouldn’t suit a more academic school anyway, but I’m not entirely sure. Let us hope that this turns out to be a blessing in disguise.

I don’t like the adaptive element, I think all children should sit the same exam as it’s so dependent on exam technique.

Hi @Kitkat189 , maybe you should just let him have a go at one of the harder schools just to see? If the school think he is capable then it seems a shame not to just based on Atom, which I think can be a bit hit and miss. Unless you really want to limit the number of exams.

I am doing 11+ for my DD this year (from a state school) and it's hard to know what level they are really. I'm going to apply for 7 schools as I can't narrow down the list, and want to give her a chance at some of the harder schools even though I don't know for sure if she has a realistic chance. She doesn't mind exams (so she says!, especially if they involve time off school!) and so I'm just going to do lots of schools and see what we get. Best of luck!

Good luck to you too. Like you we will include a range of schools, but have ended up expanding that list by adding state schools instead of London day schools, and opting out of competitive boarding school exams. Other than seeing the local state school children in my local area I’m completely unfamiliar with them so it’s going to be a roll of the dice. So hard!

Some of the state schools have a handful of places which are offered on the basis of various aptitude tests so we are hoping he will be successful in some of these

I found the scoring on the ISEB mock tests my dd did on atom v misleading. I’d read that she was likely to need a score on them of 120 or above (can’t remember the acronym of the score) but she never did. And she also showed as being quite a bit below the scores of others applying to the same schools as her. However her tutor said she must be doing well because of the complexity of the questions she was getting, due to it being adaptive. And she excelled when she did it at the entrance assessments at school and got an academic scholarship. Based on atom scores I was genuinely prepared for her not to get in at all. So I found it all v misleading.

@Kitkat189 - if your child did CAT 137 at school (private?) they are perfectly capable.
Are you sitting with them when they do the Atom tests? Or are they going on eg YouTube/other distractions and hence the scores? If you give them a paper test in a quiet room with no screen, distractions are much less likely.
The only other thing I can think of having done 11 plus from state schools several times now is that Atom suddenly became a lot more popular so it is possible the superselective grammar lot/internationals are using it now and so have upped scores on average overall.
If the child is achieving 85% per cent plus in reliable paper mock tests they should pass with that CAT scores for the vast majority of schools, private and state (90% for most selective).

Thanks for the input. Re cat scores, I’m not sure they translate to academic aptitude if that makes sense. My son isn’t stupid but he can’t seem to perform consistently in school. I believe and hope that this will improve with age and maturity. This adaptive element seems to require focus and accuracy and strategic thinking to a degree which he does not currently possess. Maybe he could handle one module at a time but there’s four! Even with breaks between it’s difficult for some to keep their focus

And that’s what the test measures, and the schools must feel it screens for the type of students who will do well in their environment, so there is definitely a message in all of this. I don’t want to shoehorn him into a place which ultimately wouldn’t suit him.

@Kitkat189 - prep schools are allowed to take the ISEB over several days which appears quite unfair then. If your DS would have to do all in one sitting.

@Kitkat189 Don't read too much into Atom scores. We didn't find them a useful indicator in the slightest. In our experience, they were very erratic, and bore very little relation to a child's actual abilities or the outcome of the 11+. Your son's CAT scores demonstrate he's naturally bright, so I wouldn't pull him out of top school assessments just based on practice tests so far. Have you discussed it with his teachers?

My DD is going to have to do it all in one sitting as well as the school is not a centre, can only do at British council

I don’t know the answer, OP, but we are the same. CAT score of 140, but just can’t seem to click with the way the adaptive tests work. Sending lots of sympathy.

Although I do also think that some of the things they ask 10 year olds at a very early stage in the tests are absolutely insane - especially the vocabulary. We’ve had words in the first few questions that I honestly think a fair chunk of adults wouldn’t know. Last week, “omniscient” popped up at q.4, for example…I remember learning that in my A level history class! It’s hard to get the first few questions right under those circumstances…

I would say the CAT test taken in Year 4/5 is quite different from the Atom/ISEB adaptive tests or other non-adaptive 11+ related online tests. The data sample for the latter includes students who have: 1. Undergone specific 11+ training and tutoring on all subjects, 2. Studied a more advanced curriculum for 11+ and 3. Taken the test multiple times to boost their scores, which can distort the normalized score. However, if your DS's mock performance isn't as expected across multiple platforms, perhaps consider applying to more schools. Unfortunately, for ISEB, it is a one-shot deal, so some dedicated focus on exam technique is required. Good luck.

I have a similar dilemma here, for the atom mock exam results are quite shocking and never reflect the standardised scores DC normally gets from school reports. I appreciate DC might need to work further on the adaptive nature of some tests.

What does everyone else’s Performance Comparison’ look like on the other hand? We have put a top school as the target for now and DC looks to be exceeding in all subjects, which makes me doubt too.. They are compared against the applicants to the school at the time of their exam which kind of explains it, and also means we should look at it with good caution. Would that be right?

I also can’t understand how their algorithm works, kagurazakamum. DD is also exceeding the average level of applicants to the most academic school we’re applying for, and to be honest, this is what I would expect, from the feedback we get from her school. (I appreciate of course that this is the level of the applicants, not those who were accepted.) But her Atom mock test results are still veering wildly between 85 and 142, with most of them in the 115-120 range, and I literally have no idea where they will land on the day.

I must confess that I have wondered a bit about the issue of test questions being repeated. We’ve had lots of issues with the same questions being repeated on Atom, sometimes multiple times in a week. It has occurred to me that if some kids are sitting lots of mock tests and getting questions to which they already know the answers (eg because they saw them yesterday), then does that perhaps drive the SAS curve up a bit..?

I am telling myself that it’s just an app and doesn’t actually have any bearing on her real schoolwork beyond this exam. Once she’s settled in a new school, her actual work will carry on as it always has done.