A-Level sciences with combined science (double) GCSE

[SuSl678]

DD is in year 9 and currently starting to think about GCSE options.

Her school abandoned separate sciences at GCSE a couple of years ago and now only offers the combined sciences double certificate, which is compulsory for all. They also closed their 6th form and so DD will need to go somewhere else for A-Levels. However, all of the other local schools offer separate sciences for their top sets, so will DD be at a disadvantage or even able to do science A-Levels at another school without having done separate sciences?

Science and maths are DD’s “thing”, which she has always been very good at and so I am feeling a bit concerned. The school has fairly limited GCSE options, they only teach one language and so DD will take that, with the remaining option either being a third humanity (3 choices are offered) or a practical subject. DD dislikes/isn’t very good at the practical subjects, other than PE but GCSE isn’t offered, just a lower level qualification, plus she doesn’t participate in sports outside of school, so not sure if it will even be an option. So it looks like it’s going to be the third humanity option, which DD is okay at but dislikes.

I’m actually seriously considering looking into DD changing school, so that she can do separate sciences, rather than three humanities, as we aren’t very happy with academics at her current school either, but she is reluctant to leave friends.

It will be fine. She’ll probably need to get 8,8 though, rather than a 7 if she was doing single sciences.

How does DD feel about changing school?

I've been at 6th form open events all week speaking to A Level Science and Maths teachers. The science teachers did say that the double science students do not study a portion of the curriculum that is covered by the GCSE separate sciences and it can be a struggle to move into A Level Sciences. It's not impossible.

Many years ago I did double science GCSE and moved into A level physics, I found it hard going and was definitely on a backfoot. It sounds like I went to a similar school to your daughter - they reduced their offerings and it didn't work for me.

I choose a school for my son with the ability to study separate sciences and have the opportunity to do further Maths if capable because of my experience, and it's worked well.

It's hard to move them at this age, however if possible I would move her.

My son is currentry studying a science subject at university having done double science followed by a Btec as he couldn’t do three science A levels with double and was only offered biology and chemistry.

My daughter did the combined science GCSE option last year. She’s now doing Maths, Further Maths, Physics and a humanities subject at A level in a different college. Sometimes in physics they cover topics she’s not come across before but she’s holding her own and is predicted an A in (looking at engineering degrees as a next step).

Full disclosure though, her high school was very strong academically (not private) so even though she may not have covered the full range of subjects she’s generally pretty confident and unphazed which has really helped her.

I definitely wouldn't move her. So much of her energies will be spent trying to make friends, figure out the new rules, timetables etc that I doubt you would see any gain from the stronger academics, not to mention demoralising her if you force her when she's not keen.

It's not an ideal situation but better to make it work than introduce major change at this point.

If you can afford it, get her some extra tutoring before and/or during a-levels to catch her up on sciences and improve her humanities.

I'd hazard a guess that if she was trying to do Bio or Chem for A level she'd find it much more of a jump than from Physics, coming from a combined science background. .

@SuSl678 having been through this, it's certainly easier to do a science A level if you've done the full subject at GCSE. If they do combined science GCSE then there are books they can read over the summer which help them bridge the gap to A level.

I think you need to be asking what the teaching and results are like at her current school for combined sciences. How many are getting 7s, 8s and 9s? If the figures are not so great then she could well struggle at A level in sciences.

You should also be aware that some (many?) of the schools teaching triple science GCSE are starting the syllabus at the start of year 9 - so moving her in a year could well be too late. If this is really important to her, any chance of moving her immediately?

Thanks all. When we applied for her school, they offered separate sciences and two languages (she is good at languages and so may have done two), so we hadn’t expected this issue. The school most definitely isn’t strong academically, which is an existing concern and we have been dithering about whether moving in year 9 was advisable, as she is happy there. Having to do a third humanity subject that she doesn’t enjoy in the time when she could be doing science somehow makes it worse too.

if you move her, do it to a strong triple sciences GCSE school with a relevant sixth form. Then she doesn't have to change friendship groups again for sixth form.

However I appreciate that this is easier to say than do.

To add, very few are getting 7s, 8s or 9s in anything - this is a school with only around 30% getting grade 5 or above in English and Maths GCSE. If we do decide to move her, it would be as soon as possible, so that she could settle in ahead of year 10 - we know that there are currently places at the schools that we would be considering.

If you talk to schools, ask if they start any GCSE course in year 9 (especially triple science). If they say yes, obviously don't delay the move

I would lay out all the options for DD and see if you could do a swift visit to the schools with spaces? She might really find them appealing. As she is going to have to move anyway, it seems a bit pointless to keep her in a school that will hold her back. Friendships are anyway very fluid at this age. My DD's whole extended gang was quite often falling in and out with others throughout Yrs 8-11.

If you moved her right now, she would soon find her feet in a new place with a through sixth form.

You can definitely go on to study a level from double science.

My main worry of changing schools would be that just because a school offers triple science, it doesn't guarantee she will do it. So you need to be sure that she would make the cut in her new school. Bear in mind my sons school didnt decide who got to do triple science until after the year 10 mocks as the different content wasn't taught until year 11. And the school i work at does the same. If your mocks have you getting grades like 4, 4, 5) they suggest that two higher grades is better and more likely to get you the magic 6 that is needed for A level science at our local college.

It sounds like your DD is an academic student in a non-academic school, and my fear would be she will not reach her potential there. I would certainly explore other avenues and let her have the final say, because moving her when she would prefer to stay put will not be productive. Perhaps some tutoring support could help her bridge that gap between middle grade double science and top grades triple?

@PollyPut you may well be right! She’s full on into Maths and Physics which also complement each other very well.

I feel fairly confident that she would have the ability to get the higher grades at GCSE/do triple sciences, as on last years’ end of year exam, she apparently got significantly higher than the next highest mark. Obviously, that’s all relative but schools aren’t selective around here and so presumably she would be near the top of her cohort elsewhere. Her school doesn’t do grade predictions until years 10/11 though because they say that it can discourage students, so we’re a bit in the dark on that.

I think that the main problem will be in persuading her to move, she is very confident and makes friends easily but isn’t keen on change.

She won’t be held back through not doing them. It’s not a requirement for A levels but gives them a head start. But what a shame she can’t. I’m not aware of any comp not doing separate sciences round our way. I suppose moving her would depend if you/ she is happy with anything else. Can you lobby the school? It might be a bit late… in my son’s comp the top set does an extra class after school in years 10 and 11 for separate sciences

Personally if all else is good I wouldn’t be moving her at this point. I have been looking at many sixth forms and none, even highly sejective, require separate sciences for A level. Concentrate on her getting strong grades…

You need to look at all the options together and make a decision from there. If your DD is bright she will see the drawbacks of her current school if she's significantly ahead.

I work as an A-level Biology tutor and have had quite a few students who have done combined science and have gone in to do exceptionally well in sciences at A-level (going on to do medicine/vet med). I’ve not heard of colleges asking for higher grades if they do combined science rather than separate sciences either.

Can she do an extra GCSE elsewhere or online? I did that, albeit millions of years ago, and did an extra GCSE at evening class whilst doing the rest at school.

From what you've said, I'd see about moving her asap before they get too far into term

That won't help, due to how sciences are done at GCSE level.

OP, it should be fine especially if she dies work post GCSE to catch up a bit the missing topics in her A level subjects.

Provided the current school can teach able children to get to higher grades.

Hey @SuSl678 lots of advice here, some more useful.

This is the thing - from what teachers say on MN and from my own observation, it's not an issue to do combined science and then take A level in those sciences. Yes, there may be a bit of extra work over the summer perhaps to catch up on topics not covered; but plenty of A level science teachers on here and in person have told me that it is more than possible.

It might be more of a concern if everyone else on the A level course has taken single sciences, but even then, as I say, summer catch-up work is your friend.

However, and I don't often advise this, I might be looking at moving her school for the other reasons you mention – low attainment at GCSE, and the rigidity about GCSE options. Tho O am not sure I fully understand that bit. What is the PE qualification that is lower than a GCSE? If it is PE BTEC then there is nothing wrong with that and it might be better for your DD than a humanity she doesn't like.

Is she already doing two from history, geography, RS? And then is likely to have to pick the third as well? That's quite unusual and quite a workload. So she would be taking 2 x Eng, maths, 2 x science, hist, geog, MFL and RS?

What are the other options? Does she really not fancy drama or DT or food tech or computing or music (admittedly music GCSE is best taken by someone who already studies music outside school)? Or what are the other options. If she does stay where she is, I would explore this a bit more. If she is in year 9 there is time to take up a sport outside school if that would help and she is keen.

The PE is not BTEC but a “certificate”, I don’t know/would need to look into the exact details but I know that it’s lower than GCSE level because a neighbouring school does it but also offers GCSE to higher ability students. Computer Science and food tech aren’t ideal because the school hasn’t been able to recruit qualified teachers for a long time, and she dislikes/isn’t good at DT, drama or music. So it would likely mean that she has to do RS, history and geography, even though she hates one of them, and is very much science/maths focused.

Just because another school offers the PE certificate (could be Cambridge nationals?) as well as GCSE doesn't mean the first one is lower level tbh. DD took GCSE music and there was a parallel group doing BTEC music – not lower level as such, just differently assessed and suitable for those who don't do grades on their instrument (as far as I can gather).

Anyway I'm not sure it matters does it? If she would prefer the lower level (if it is) PE qualification to taking history (or whatever the non-liked humanity is) then seems like a no brainer to me, if she does stay at the school. Having one non-GCSE with eight GCSEs is not going to matter at all long term. And PE may support her science - certs a lot of the GCSE is related to biology.