How to go about raising issue of private v comp with ex who is against private education

[Meeko505]

This is a bit of a WWYD question. We live in a UK city, the kids (10 and 8) are with me 4 nights and their dad 3. He is not a particularly good dad, pays no CMS even when I was a single mum on minimum wage, and they don't really like going to his house, but he is extremely keen to play an active role in their lives and will have very strong opinions on which school they go to.

There are two schools, likely, in contention for secondary. The local comprehensive school which is pretty much extremely average, and a local selective private. We are willing to pay 100% of the fees for the private if the kids want to go there and can get in (my husband is lucky enough to earn enough to do this for us). (We'd also pay for uniform etc., but this goes without saying since their Dad doesn't pay towards that anyway.)

We visited the school, we liked it a lot. The kids seem happy, there are lots of ECs and good facilities, and the outcomes/results are very good. We are going to visit the comp soon too, but atm we are very keen on this at least being an option. We also have two younger children together, and I feel a little guilty at the idea that the older two may not have the same opportunity that the younger two will if we don't push for this for them, if that makes sense.

Now, their dad is 100% against private education on a principles basis*, so I know he is going to say no and we will disagree. I would really like to send them to the private school. It's 2-3 mins closer to us (walking) than the comp, so the logistics of attending don't change anything. The kids, most importantly atm the eldest, would like to go to the private school too. I guess my questions are:

1. If it causes a big argument, how far would you go to push for the private? And does anyone have any experience of this kind of disagreement, especially if it went to a specific issue order?
2. Should we take the 10yo to an open day for the private and comp before talking to his dad? I am in two minds whether it's good for him to form a more informed opinion on what he wants before we start the discussions or whether this will just cause dad to kick off more.
3. Am I being unreasonable in wanting to push for this in the first place? I just want the kids to have the best education they can.

• I also want to point out that while he is against private schools, the kids both attend a foreign language school one day a week where they are learning one of his language (he is half-Spanish and speaks both fluently). We've facilitated this, do school runs, although we don't pay fees. I appreciate it's not quite the same as a private school but it is basically private education, so he's willing to compromise on this principles when it matters to him.

Hiya, I think if you can you should agree this together if at all possible. I remember sitting with my ex by the swimming pool and discussing pros and cons. If you can both listen to each other. I was very much pro comprehensives but was open to listening to his view. Now we have to find a sixth form and we’ll do the same. I don’t think you should take them to see the school without his agreement. Is this worth a big falling out over? Maybe he’ll be more open to your view than you think.

He is not really the type of person you can have a pros and cons discussion with. He is extremely opinionated and generally ignores anything he doesn't want to discuss or deal with. If we try to mention something to him that is important to us, i.e. please can you make sure the children wear bicycle helmets cycling on the road, he will literally just blank it or get quite angry that we are trying to impose on his parenting when they are with him.

Well you have to have a conversation. Can you articulate to him clearly why you prefer the school, that helped us. What exactly is better…It sounds like you want to impose your view and I have no idea what happens with a disagreement in that scenario. Maybe others know

What are your custody arrangements?

Yeah, we will obviously be raising this with him - I guess I am just asking how best to go about it and what order to do things in. I know that my son has asked him about schools and he just said 'no, you aren't going to [private], end of discussion' and would not discuss it with him. (I told 10yo probably better to leave it and let us raise it within him ourselves.)

I don't think I'm imposing my views, exactly, although I acknowledge that it's not like either of us has more say than the other. However, I would say my views are coming from what I personally believe are concern for the children's best interests whereas I don't believe my ex is really concerned with that.

Nothing official - we have been doing the 4/3 split for many years by private arrangement and neither of us has sought a court order etc.

I'd tell him he can take you to court over it if he really wants to. He's being daft and it will cause a rift amongst your kids. Your older child is old enough to have a say. If they want to go to the private school then that's what's happening.

I’d definitely let your ten year old see the comp if not the private. What if he loves it? You can take him to the private too but be prepared for him to be disappointed if his dad says blanket no.

If he doesn't pay CMS he's pretty unlikely to have cash for a solicitor. If he tries to take you to court then go after him for the CMS. He's being ridiculous and willing to sacrifice his kids future for his 'beliefs'.

Both parents need to agree on schools. You’ll have to go to court if you don’t agree. It’s what ended Jeremy Corbyn’s first marriage, I think his wife won and their son went private but it took a judge to decide.

It seems risky and manipulative to get the kids excited about the private option when you know their father doesn’t agree. Are you hoping they’ll put pressure on him to agree to it? While I understand your wish for fairness between the two sets of children, it’s nothing to your ex that your husband is wealthy and he’ll want the younger two in private.

Honestly? I would ask MN to move this thread to Relationships.

Is your 10yo year 5 or year 6? If year 6 then you really need to get on with things like open days so I’d go ahead with that. If year 5 then you have more time to discuss with ex and in that case I would do the discussion before taking child to open days.

Importantly you should find out whether the private school requires both parents’ signature/consent etc to accept a place. I suspect some may (where other parent still has PR).

It's not that - honestly I just don't want to go through the stress and difficulty of trying to have this conversation with my ex, who is really difficult and abusive, if my son doesn't even want to go to the private that much! So I want him to visit both schools and compare before I bring it up. But I agree it might cause some resentment from ex.

Also worth mentioning that ex is also very wealthy (in many ways more than my husband), he's just v stingy which is why he doesn't contribute to anything like uniforms or CMS. So he would have the money for solicitors etc. if it came to that.

He's year 5, so I'm trying to be proactive. It's a good point about asking the school, though - I'll check with them.

The most honest and calmest thing to do is you, your ex and y5 kid visit both schools together. Hopefully ex won’t be a dick in front of your kid.

then afterwards discuss as a 3. No games. No new partners etc over a pizza or whatever

it’s the only way to be transparent and clear with your kid who is 100% the most important person here

Be careful how you phrase your question - if it is highly oversubscribed and competitive school then “DS’s dad may not support him coming here” might put them off offering as they may not like the sound of an unsupportive parent & potential for a court challenge.

Better to say something like “so for sending in application forms, I am divorced and DS lives with me and new DH most of the time, will my signature be enough or will I need to get my ex’s too”.

Sorry to be cynical.

@Meeko505 Sorry to hear that you can not really have a rationale conversation with your ex on this. I can see how this must be hard for you.

In my experience the people who are most anti independent schools have no 1st hand experience of them and I'm afraid that sometimes their negative opinions can be based on reverse snobbery. The best way to persuade someone who is doubtful about the benefits of an independent school education is to get them to visit the school for themselves. Then people can see for themselves what the differences are and usually people see these quite starkly. Maybe you could ask your ex to come on a visit to the independent school with you (no kids). You could tell him that you want his opinion on this particular school and not schools in general and that you want both of you to be completely informed.

It is a big decision so I understand your angst, good luck.

I think it's totally understandable that you're feeling conflicted. From what you’ve said, it sounds like you're really focused on what’s best for your kids in terms of their education and well-being. While there are concerns from you about their dad’s consistency, he does seem keen to be involved, even if his actions may fall short in areas like financial support.
It might help to focus on the children’s preferences and what's in their best interest educationally. If they’re leaning towards the private school and it's financially doable, it could be worth discussing how you and their dad can come together for the kids' sake. Visiting open days at both schools might help everyone make an informed decision. The fact that their dad has already compromised with the foreign language school could be a good starting point for finding some middle ground.
As for how far you should push, it depends on how strongly you feel about the opportunities at the private school versus the comp. If you can keep the discussion centered on what's best for the kids, backed up with facts and their preferences, you may avoid a big argument. Even if there's disagreement, working through it together can lead to a solution that works for the kids!

If you and your H can afford private secondary for 4 DC (a massive expense and commitment) you can easily afford legal advice about this and the 4/3 day split, so would get that first.

Then would think hard about your current household situation - relationship and finances Your level of confidence of your relationship and health lasting the course and being able to see it through. Here you are largely dependent on your H.

If you still want to do it and the legal advice is in your favour would inform your H that’s what you’re doing. He then has the option to take you to court.

It may be that you end up in court anyway if he really is as poor a dad as you say and the DC want to spend less time with him.