Schools to consider for academic son with SEN - Kingston

[Outnumbered4321]

Hi,

Just looking for some food for thought as my son gets closer to finishing primary, he is starting y4. We live in New Malden.

He is currently doing well in his large State Primary with a good SEN provision. He has a dual diagnosis of Autism and Adhd with varying support needs in the classroom (sometimes high, sometimes nothing at all) . No Ehcp and unlikely to get one (school don't think it is needed now). He is brilliant, very academically able but certainly has trouble with emotional regulation, has certain sensory preferences and struggles with perfectionism.

He sits on a table with a TA (not a 1:1 though) who supports keeping him on task and with task initiation and takes him for movement breaks when needed. The school are really good about reasonable accomodations and this doesn't seem to meet their threshold of thinking he needs an ehcp. Perhaps this is because their SEN provision is better than average, I don't know...

I am in a bit of a bind as to whether I should make a self application for an ehcp to try to ensure this kind of support on an ongoing basis (lots of TA cuts coming up sadly) and also to have the opportunity to name a secondary school. I also don't know which ones to be considering for him!

We live not far from Coombe Boys and Raynes Park High (hearing it is up and coming and improving lots but Ed psych who knows him and the school has mentioned she doesn't think it would suit him so not that keen) and Richard Challoner (no chance at all without ehcp as not Catholic but it has a specialist ASD provision in a mainstream setting we could potentially apply if we had an ehcp)

Another possible option is Tiffin boys. My eldest is at TGS and I think he also has the potential to get in to a superselective grammar, but as he's so young I don't know whether he would fare under the 11+ process and there are never any guarantees with selective schools. A lot of his friends are starting their 11+ prep this year but I would worry it would stretch it out too long for him and he might not have the resilience/stamina for 2 years. I have no idea whether Tiffin boys would support him well either, I only know a couple of boys there neither of whom have SEN. Sutton Grammar is also within an easy commute but I know noone there.

Private school doable at a big stretch, I would only really go down that route if our state options were very bad for SEN or weak either academically or behaviourally but it's hard to find out whether they really are or not. Ofsted reports aren't the full picture and are often quite old.

I want somewhere where he will be stretched academically as this is his strength but also nurtured and supported. Does this exist?

Would welcome any food for thought at all on the schools I've mentioned, ehcps, SEN provisions and even any other suggestions. It feels like such a minefield and much more so than for my neurotypical kids.

Edited to add - there are also anectodal reports of Coombe Boys and RPH refusing kids with ehcps if they mention TA support on the basis they "cannot meet need", basically closing the shutters to keep kids out, and then parents are being allocated secondaries far far away without any of their friends and with difficult commutes... So I am also being told to wait, get through to y7 and then apply! A rock and a hard place...

Another possible option is Tiffin boys.

With ADHD? Forget it. SEN kids with the exception of some brill mathematicians with ASD are not really a suitable candidates for TGS.

The best school there where the child like like that would be taken care of is Richard Challoner but if you are not a Catholic then you don't have much choice if you don't live in Teddington School, Kingston Academy or Grey Court catchment. You ornly viable choice is Coombe, which is rather average..

Thanks, yes I agree Richard Challoner is the school in our area with the specialism to best cater for his needs but we'd never get him in without an ehcp because it's Catholic.

So I could gamble, try an ehcp for a chance at Richard Challoner but then risk Coombe Boys creating barriers if they really do try not to increase their SEN cohort as some parents have told me... Risky.

I will have a look at the catchments for the other schools you mention - thanks!

Re Tiffin boys - do you say kids with ADHD are not suitable candidates because Tiffin is bad at supporting SEN so he would be unhappy there? Or do you mean the selection process weeds the SEN kids out so he is unlikely to get in?

Finding out about the quality of the SEN support, and the attitude of the school towards being neuro inclusive is something I am particularly interested in, it's not easy to do... I know Tiffin girls is supportive and has a good culture, the boys I have no experience of...

KGS v accepting of autism.
ADHD I’m not so sure.
In the end you must be able to show he can produce 9s and A*s because ultimately that’s what it’s all about at top private.

Re Tiffin boys - do you say kids with ADHD are not suitable candidates because Tiffin is bad at supporting SEN so he would be unhappy there? Or do you mean the selection process weeds the SEN kids out so he is unlikely to get in?

If he has assistant support now then it Tiffin is not a school for him. They work at a very fast pace there. It is not a TLC school but for very bright, very focused, structured kids that are mentally resilient. But come on you know kt if you have another child at Tiffin Girls

There's a fair bit of abilism and prejudice in that response. Clearly you are rather ignorant when it comes to the capabilities of neurodiverse individuals and have low expectations across the board. That's really quite offensive.

I don't doubt his IQ. His brain is like a racing car. He's an avid reader, working 2 years ahead on maths just for fun and has an encyclopedic knowledge of many many subjects that interest him from science to flags to football. He's the chess champion, a speed cuber and has a voracious appetite for documentaries. He is academic as I mentioned - that is his strength- I am looking for a school that will stretch him because I believe in him.

Whether he fulfils his academic potential depends on how well the school's SEN department functions. Not all schools are good at providing support. Autism is better understood than Adhd, though they frequently occur together.

Rather than hearing opinions about what children with ADHD are capable of, I am hoping to find out more about how well the schools SEN department operate, what kind of reasonable accomodations they implement and their ethos when it comes to celebrating neurodiversity.

Tiffin girls for example have a neurodiversity week, special assemblies and events for parents with speakers to help them understand and support their kids better. My daughter who goes there is neurotypical but I attended many of these out of interest and my impression is they are open minded and willing to support. The boys is a different school which I have no insider knowledge of.

I have PM’d you, Outnumbered.
There are, of course, loads of kids at Tiffin Boys with ASD/ADHD.

Clearly you are rather ignorant when it comes to the capabilities of neurodiverse individuals and have low expectations across the board. That's really quite offensive.

How can I have low expectations when I said above that there are brill kids with ASD at maths?
I have not said that neurodiverse kids are not intelligent.
Learning is not only about intelligence but a very important factor of of it is focus and attention. Isn't it ADHD struggling with it ?
If your child has an assistant at primary do you expect it to continue at grammar schools? If his ADHD was mild he would not have needs for any assistance.
I personally think that some parents are ruthless with their ambition pushing children with learning difficulties to the grammar schools. You clearly made your mind.

Tiffin School in Kingston, Surrey, had 19 children with an education, health, and care plan (EHCP) for the 2024 academic year.

I'm not going to unpick your further abilism and stereotyping here. That's work for you to do. I don't need to remedy your ignorance.

You also clearly don't know much at all about autism, adhd or the kinds of supports schools put in place as a matter of normal practice for children with these neurodiversities.

I was hoping to engage with people who could speak from a position of knowledge about the quality of the SEN provision at the various schools in my area, to help me decide which schools might suit - I don't want to send him somewhere he will be unhappy or somewhere that has the kind of low expectations for children with SEN that you have - so let's you and I leave things there because you aren't qualified to continue this discussion.

And you believe that others are more qualified because? You have received the well informed response from you. I have several friends in Kingston with SEN kids .As I said the RCS there is the best option when it comes to SEN and I know several boys who attend it as well as Holly Cross ( girls). I know a girl with ASD who just got to HC. Kingston Academy is a runner up- caring small school with excellent SEN provision and. The rest is average when it comes to SEN provision and academic performance.

Your response is awful and very arrogant. You clearly have issues, and you are in denials and you listen only to what you want to hear and if you read what doesn't please you, you attack. I wish your son good luck and I am sorry if his mum will blame him all life if he will not get the Holy Grail of grammar school or will not feel well there. EOT YUCK

Dear me...

Anyone else who has direct experience of the support in these schools, please share. The SEN boards don't have as much traffic as this one hence posting here.

I’d disregard Raynes Park as heard v mixed things but I think Coombe Boys could actually be a really good fit.

I have heard excellent things with friends with kids there re SEN support and academics wise they’re shouting loudly about scoring highest Progress 8 scores for secondaries in whole of Kingston and Merton boroughs. Their social media displays boys with 10 Grade 9s at GCSE, does seem it’s got high achieving boys there and high aspirations.

I suspect the change in demographics has helped over past decade - a lot of professionals with high aspirations are now opting to stay local and send their boys there. Much better feedback from parents with kids in both on leadership/Comms than at Coombe Girls.

Plus - stating the obvious - but without an EHCP you’re very catchment dependent on New Malden and there are some black holes. So good to plan now!

Tiffin might have only 19 statemented kids with ASD but certainly there'll be a large amount with private/NHS diagnoses. One day people are going to wake up and see that many very bright people are on the spectrum in some way. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's obvious. But it's ever present.

Propertyladder thank you - that's really good to hear about Coombe Boys and quite interesting to hear that vs the girls! As it happens my son has a twin sister and Coombe Girls is likely going to be on her CAF when the time comes! RPH our Ed Psych didn't seem keen on for him either, and I value her opinion as she knows the school and my son so I think I will discount it, or stick it on to avoid a very distant school being allocated.
As you say, without the ehcp those are the only 2 real in catchment comprehensive options I think . School won't apply for an ehcp as they think he doesn't need one. I have a lot more investigation to do on whether or not to make a self application and likely end up with a fight on my hands.
Even if I managed to get one, there's no guarantee RC would have space to take him as they are oversubscribed and a risk my catchment schools then decide to create barriers (2 boys I know with ehcps have been turned away from Coombe and RPH this year - while they do have higher support needs then my son I didn't think they were particularly difficult to meet needs so it seems like a bit of a gatekeeping game being played by the schools - scarce resources lead to underhand tactics maybe?? ) . I feel almost paralysed by it all.

Mabs49 I share your optimism. Change is coming, attitudes in general are definitely becoming more enlightened. Thank you.

Could you try contacting admissions at these schools and explaining your DS’s needs. I know the open days are very rare at some of these schools but there might be a chance to speak to a SEN person in person. Often you get much more information like this verbally than online/written because it’s all off the record. Good luck with it all.

Mabs49 thank* *you, that's a really good idea. I didn't visit any schools in y4 for my eldest but I might start earlier as it is more complicated for my son.

I really hope I can find somewhere that he will be stretched, supported and understood and hopefully finally find kids who share his interests and find his tribe.

Achieving for Children Richmond and Kingston just shared an excellent list of questions for secondary schools for kids with SEN but no EHCP which I'll share here in case it's ever of use to anyone- I'm going to be looking for the Senco and asking them in all the schools I visit.

-how does the school support students with SEN support needs in the classroom?

• What interventions and resources are available for SEN students?
• How does the school tailor its approach to individual learning needs?
• What is the student to staff ratio in SEN support settings?
• how does the school communicate with parents about progress or concerns.

Hopefully this would help identify commonly used supports like toilet passes, access to a quiet area, use of sensory adjustments (headphones, fidgets) etc etc... And whether it is a neuro inclusive culture or not!

@Outnumbered4321 We are in a very similar position where we have just found out that our schools senior school will be closing adn we are now having to do 11+ - which our DS would not really be ready to do - ie not ready to show the best of the abilities and now hunting again - thank you for yoru thread - some of the comments have been very thought provoking - esp re EHCP vs not. Our DS's school as also said not to apply for oone but close friends have suggested we do... so tricky!

That’s really sad news, which school is it? We had our primary school shut a few years ago and it was a panicked few months trying to move schools!

Not in the area, but as parent of a child with high ability but ADHD and dyslexia, if I could start again (and Covid wasn't around to mess things up) I would have thrown everything at getting an EHCP in place as early as possible.

Ignore schools that tell you not to go down that path.

I'm in the situation where I was told not to and then in Y10/11 told that unfortunately we need one to access support but too late to get it in place.

OP, we're nearby, in Richmond, so under the same LA for this purpose and I could have written your post when my child was in Year 4 - if anything, his needs were slightly less than those of your son. Like your son, mine is very bright and is academically able (until the anxiety connected with his autism gets in the way).

Year 5 for us was a car crash despite amazing support from his school and apparently that's a very common time for things to start to fray badly. We're now in Year 6 and consulting only with schools with specialist ASD provision.

I think you may want to plan in case an EHCP becomes necessary. I'd start by gathering every provision map, diagnosis letter, EP report etc etc you can find, and if his Senco is good, engaging with him/her about all possible outcomes.

I would caution against Coombe Boys. Absolutely catastrophic for my nephew and I’ve heard numerous horror stories more generally.

Surprised to read this, having had experience of excellent support at Coombe Boys and other parents saying the same. I suspect like many schools, it depends on the child, no one size fits all.