Grade inflation and students feeling they may have done better than they have ...

[mids2019]

I have an acquaintance who attended an inner city comp (not the worst) and teachers were always touting her as extremely bright as they have a positive ethos. The acquaintance is probably bright compared to their peers but at GCSE she gained 18, a couple of 7s and the rest a mixture of 6s and 5s

Teachers at the school were encouraging them to try for Oxbridge as she was one of the brightest in the school.

Are there a few teachers that aren't really aware of grade inflation and don't look at nearby grammars and private schools where strings of 8s and 9s from the brightest are the norm?

Is it a little cruel to over praise results!

Missing the key fact that universities now have widening access schemes for this exact reason.. You sound awfully judgemental and negative re: this poor girl, OP

@CherryValley5 ,

II didn't want to appear judgmental as the girl in question is bright. I think the issue was to some extent the 'bright' label being applied when from a purely objective point of view there were other schools producing better results. It is I think a problem of not seeing the competition in a sense.

there may have been some failings in teaching or possibly teachers not pushing for the higher grades. I think she has actually been a little let down by the positivity even though it was meant for all the right reasons.

You must live a very sheltered life. Average grades at a private school and average grades at a less privileged state school mean very different things, thankfully universities are more open minded these days and have began to recognise this.

Do you really think that the teaching and opportunities at a state school are equal to those at a wealthy private school? Of course they’re not, therefore successes are celebrated differently.

What has your point got to do with grade inflation?
And why are you mixing up pronouns?

@CherryValley5

II agree. I think she is extremely bright but maybe this shows schooling environment is critical. There must be others that are intelligent yet not taught to maximise their grades in an intense way.

I don't know what the solution is but I do hope universities really do take into account school attended when awarding places. I think the girls in question would have improved her grades (not that they are bad!) in a different environment.

Why on earth would you think this is grade inflation? you seem to have a very low opinion of this 'acquaintance'. If they managed to get those results spread across 18 blimin GCSEs and from an inner city comp, my goodness they are Einstein bright! No one in their right mind does 18 GCSEs and private/grammar schools are sharp enough to never encourage beyond 10 max, most do 9.

They should definitely try for Oxbridge and you OP need to stop chewing on those sour grapes.

I can see where you’re coming from OP. We all know that outcomes tend to be higher in private or grammar schools, however this idea that a 7 from a state comp is worth the same as a 9 from a private, or that all the kids getting 6s/7s in state comps would achieve all 8s/9s if only they went to private school is ridiculous.

I would say that my niece suffered from what you are talking about. State comp (perfectly decent - certainly not a ‘sink school’) and achieved a mix of A/B/C at GCSE. (Primarily Bs I think) Went to a good sixth form college where she was told she was really, really bright - encouraged to apply for medicine. Came out of A level having worked her ass off for 2 years with B,B and D* in her BTech. Didn’t get a single offer for medicine and even if she had, wouldn’t have met the grades. Still believed that she was exceptionally bright though because she’d been told she was and was told she was ‘medicine material’. Did a degree in forensics at an ok university and came out after 3 years of working really, really hard having scraped a 2:1. Still believed what the teachers at school and college had drummed into her and applied for GEM and once again didn’t get a single offer. (GEM is incredibly hard to get regardless, but with a 2:1 and A levels which were good, but not brilliant, she didn’t stand a chance) She is now a year post graduation and has no idea what to do with her life because she has spent 6 years totally focused on how she was going to become a doctor, even though she never really stood a chance. She’s capable - no question, but she really has to work for her grades and when she gets them they’re good, but never outstanding. Considering how competitive medicine courses are she never had a hope of getting in, and I do believe she was let down by teachers who raised her hopes and didn’t seem to recognise that just because someone is good in your particular cohort, doesn’t meant they are that good across the whole national cohort.

What do you think grade inflation means op?

This.. I was expecting OP to be talking about Covid era (where grade inflation most definitely did exist)

It’s the pupils at private and grammars whose grades have been elevated compared to what they would have achieved in a comp.
The comprehensive grades cannot be directly compared to private school grades.
Universities look at what a student has obtained relative to their peers in the same school. A private or grammar school where everyone gets 8 or 9 means those grades aren’t especially brilliant but a comp where most get 4/5 means someone achieving 6/7/8 is likely very intelligent.

@FerminRomeroDeTorres

Exactly.

I wasn't trying to put down the girl in question at all and I apologise if my post came across as such.

I don't think it is fair to put the student in a pedestal because her results were good compared to a majority in the school. I think some of the teachers would love to see her at Oxford as they have warmed to her and she is a great contributor to the school in terms of art and music. However I don't know if setting high ambitions helps in a sense.

as for the question how well she would have done in a grammar/private schools I think it's unkown. Personally I believe in a more competitive environment she may have been pushed further; whether this is a good or bad thing though is debatable.

How is this grade inflation? What you seem to be saying is this girl isn't as bright as her school is telling her she is. The teachers may well be right that she is very bright and so could have gotten much better grades with the right support. Just because the teachers are at a school where a lot of pupils don't do well doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about or that they're blind to the fact that high achievers at private schools and grammar schools get much higher grades.

I suppose the grade inflation refers to the fact a bright child now may expect universal 8s or 9s in the right envionment. I don't know if some of the teachers were quite aware of some of the grade profiles that are coming out of the more selective schools in the county.

I just hope doors aren't closed to her because of a GCSE profile that can't match those from other schools.

But I’m in my 50s (very early GCSE intro year) and the brightest children had all As then. No A* in the 80s!

@FloralGums

I agree but will universities are that?

I think the teaching staff probably are incredibly ambitious for their brighter pupils in reality but are they allowing their obvious desire for the students to excel blind them against maybe realities of education?

@FloralGums an 8/9 is an amazing achievement no matter what school. And private schools are often selective - state schools are not, so no matter what the teaching the students are bound to do better. However it isn't necessarily true that your average private is any better than a good state school, of which there are plenty.
OP 'relatively' bright may be the issue here. While unis are reaching out for wider participation with contextual offers and foundation years, there's no point a student attending a course where they will struggle, as @FerminRomeroDeTorres says.
The truth of the matter is there are thousands of extremely bright A/A star students out there, and of course the international element. Competition is high. But fortunately there are also plenty of very good universities that will have standard offers of Bs and Cs. Not for medicine and other specific degrees obviously , but for most.
I am assuming that you made a typo, and your YP got 8s, not that they got 18 GCSEs, which would be totally ridiculous.
As for Oxbridge, they do look at GCSEs, they are interested in wider participation (and do things like summer school) , but they do not make contextual offers. There are opportunities in entrance exams/submitted written work/interviews to overcome a few lower marks. But even so, to succeed in that environment they must be very very capable, and even a string of 9s and A stars doesn't mean an interview, let alone an offer.

Kids are getting stupider that's for sure. A's and A*'s are through the roof yet there are hoards entering university who can't even spell or speak properly for that matter.

Funnily enough kids are human, not robots People have different strengths and not everyone is traditionally smart in the same way. It’s a good thing. Some of our best scientists and innovators were considered firmly thick at school!

My DH for example is an airline pilot. Judging on spelling and grammar alone he would fall into the positively stupid category by your assessment of things. Most of his emails could be written better by the average 8 year old.. However, he also happens to be a laser focused maths and physics wizz with a 1st from a RG university, capable of captaining a commercial aircraft and safely flying 1000s of passengers per year.

I work with consultant surgeons and some of the things that I’ve been asked to spell out for them whilst they write notes would amaze you. We live in NI so I’d assume that none of my acquaintances, even the very cleverest, would tick your ‘speaking properly’ box. Speech is subjective and heavily influenced by accent and local dialect.

I assume the OP means she got one 8, two 7s etc.

sorry for the typo

It was something like 2 x 8, 2 x7 and the rest 6s and 5s.

Good results and all passed but perhaps not near the bar for the ambitions teachers had for her.

The point I think is that teachers and parents are really proud of their bright child but the cynic in me feels that possibly some doors may close (not necesarily) unless there are very good A level results.

If you do not go a grammar or private school or certain comprehensives you will feel you are in the upper 5% say looking at local results. You will feel like the 'intelligent' one.

How do you aspire to elite universities of a school is going to give praise and encouragement when there possibly is the need for an uptick in results? She is the sort of girl that would be targeted through outreach programs but the overall competition nationally may be too high.

Her writing consistently was praised by teachers of being high quality in politics and history yet at GCSE and gained a 6. A good pass but not one that reflected the general opinion of her in the school community (she is an aspirant journalist). I think there is an element of being taught to a certain grade that is difficult to circumnavigate.